When is a race not a race?

[Brogan]

Where are they listed as DNF at the US 2005 GP?

In our database we had them listed correctly as DNS, as do others: http://www.manipef1.com/results/2005/unitedstates/race/

I wouldn't consider the f1.com site to be authoritative on this, their results pages are riddled with errors.

 

[Pyrope]

Formula1.com, ChicaneF1.com, StatsF1.com, and GEL Motorsport, which is normally just a transcript of the official. I don't have a FORIX account at the moment so I can't check there, but lots of the usual suspects seem to show "Ret" or "DNF". Having just pulled up the official, FIA published classification, I see that the term used is indeed "DNF" (see attachment).

On the other hand, looking at the transcript of the charges brought against the teams by the FIA after the race, item two states that they "wrongly refused to allow your cars to start the race". Seems the FIA didn't consider the race to have started on the formation lap, as the World Motorsport Council found them guilty on this charge initially, which was only later overturned when the teams pointed out that had they let their cars start then they may have been prosecuted under Indiana law for placing their drivers in a knowingly unsafe position.

 

[Pyrope]

So, back to square one. The race doesn't start on the formation lap, but we don't know where it does start. We seem to be left with only two choices. Either when the cars come to a full stop on the grid proper, or when the lights go out. I know which one I'd bank on, but a process of elimination still isn't definitive.

 

[canis]

In the absence of any other information the race does not start until the lights are extinguished. This is covered in the start procedure regs :-

38.9 When the cars come back to the grid at the end of the formation lap, they will stop on their respective grid positions, keeping their engines running. There will be a standing start, the signal being given by means of lights activated by the permanent starter.
Once all the cars have come to a halt the five second light will appear followed by the four, three, two and one second lights. At any time after the one second light appears, the race will be started by extinguishing all red lights.

As this is the only mention within the regs of the start of a race then Schumi should have had a fine in the same way as if he had sped leaving the pits on the way to the grid.

 

[KekeTheKing]

What a strange start for modern F1. Reminded me of many scenarios from the "old" days.

It got even stranger when I thought Schumacher received a drive-through before the proper race had even started. But I've recently been convinced that he received it after his first racing lap.

I saw this note from an article; http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/30/2012-hungarian-grand-prix-driver-weekend/

Having completed a slow first lap he returned to the pits to change his tyres – and broke the speed limit, collecting a drive-through penalty.

Then I got a chance to review the pitlane feed. They had the camera on Michael the whole trip down the pit lane before the race had started and he was going noticeably slower than during a normal stop.

The camera also followed Schumacher during his pit stop after Lap 1, and as soon as he left the pit lane a Race Control notification appeared that Car 7 (MSC) was under investigation for Speeding in the Pits.

This notification came at 14:08, which is definitely at odds with the FIA's own document that states 14:05 as the time of the infraction. I believe that was an error.

Of course this is all academic, but I hope I was able to shed some light on a weird sequence of events.

 

[Pyrope]

So the whole question is moot... ah well, been an interesting debate anyway!

 

[Mephistopheles]

And if it happens in the future the way we thought it happened this time maybe we will get an answer to the question...

 

[Pyrope]

Very interesting point, just made by Phil Tufnell on TMS, that cricket has been going since the 18thC and they are still arguing and debating whether the laws cover a particular eventuality!

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think you will find that rule book on golf is about a foot thick....

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think I will report every post on this thread that disagrees with me, as they could possibly make me look stupid in the future..

 

[Wombcat]

When I saw this threadtitle today I thought "at Monaco or Valencia, because there a race is a procession."