When is a race not a race?

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Looks like the stewards screwed up again.
According to Brundle, Schumacher's drive through penalty for speeding in the pit lane should have been a fine as it didn't occur during the race.

The puncture was caused by a drain cover as he was pushed into the pits.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
Looks like the stewards screwed up again.
According to Brundle, Schumacher's drive through penalty for speeding in the pit lane should have been a fine as it didn't occur during the race.

The puncture was caused by a drain cover as he was pushed into the pits.

Christ, he really has been terribly unlucky this year! A drain cover!!
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Looks like the stewards screwed up again.
According to Brundle, Schumacher's drive through penalty for speeding in the pit lane should have been a fine as it didn't occur during the race.
I am going to be pedantic here and say it did happen during the race as the second formation lap was actually counted as a racing lap I know I'm splitting hairs here but that could be the reason for the drive through rather than a fine, also there was no real need for him to speed in the pit lane he had plenty of time to get to where he needed to be..
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
None taken chap.
It would however be useful to know if Brundle is right or whether he has misunderstood the reg's.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Sporting reg's article 30.12 says

"A speed limit of 60km/h will be imposed in the pit lane during all free practice sessions, this
will be raised to 100km/h for the remainder of the Event. However, this limit may be amended
by the stewards following a recommendation from the FIA F1 safety delegate."

"Except in the race, any driver who exceeds the limit will be fined €200 for each km/h above the
limit (this may be increased in the case of a second offence in the same Event). During the race,
the stewards may impose either of the penalties under Article 16.3a) or b) on any driver who
exceeds the limit."

The notice of the Stewards decisions says:

Quote - The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, have considered the following matter,
determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor named below and impose
the penalty referred to.

No / Driver: 7 - Michael Schumacher
Competitor: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team
Time 14:05 - Session: Race
Fact: Pit Lane Speeding - 111.4 km/h.
Offence: Breach of Article 30.12 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
Decision: Drive Through Penalty.
Reason: Self Explanatory
End quote.

Article 16.3 states:

"The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive‐through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re‐join the race without
stopping.
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least
ten seconds and then re‐join the race.
If either of the two penalties above are imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a
race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time
of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b)."

I believe the term "The session" - in this case "The Race" - starts from the release of cars from parc ferme conditions for the race itself. That is effectively when the car covers come off on race day.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I'm not sure it does.

The race hadn't started so the term "except in the race" rather than "during the race" would appear to apply.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
If the race hadn't started after that aborted lap, no-one would have had that race start against their stat's.
So no, the race hadn't started.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
I am taking from that, that the race is deemed to be underway the moment the drivers start the formation lap (Or more probably the moment they leave the garage and to go to the grid, after all they are not allowed to speed then either.) which makes sense really as there could be mechanics still working in the pit lane such as if there has been more than one driver being attended to by them. also it is feasible that a driver will enter the pits at the end of the formation lap to change tyres, say for instance he suffered a puncture on said formation lap.

After all the speed restriction is not there to annoy people or to catch drivers out it is there for the safety of the people who work in that environment.

Sod it I'm gonna come right out and say it, this time Brundle is talking out of his arse....
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Speeding in the pitlane is the same speed limit agreed at the start of the race weekend from the 1st practice session when it is applied

Now for speeding during practice and quali it is usually a fine

For speeding during a race it was a stop go penalty but it is now the less severe drive through penalty
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
I think Brundle has a point about the penalty applied to Schumacher as he did not gain anything from speeding before the race started other than trying to get to the back of the pack or grid quickly

Obviously if it happened during the race than a drive through is justified
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Maybe this is a better explanation (my underline) why he got a drive through, then:

"If a driver has a problem on the grid immediately prior to the start he must raise his arm and the start will be aborted. A new formation lap, which will count towards the race distance, will then be completed."

here: http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8691/

Edit: Pit lane speed limits are in place for safety reasons and not to do with gaining advantage, although causing disadvantage to the transgressor is one of the means of punishment.
 

sushifiesta

Champion Elect
Contributor
During a formation lap, a driver unfortunate enough to be starting from the pit lane can conceivably gain an advantage by breaking the speed limit. For example, if things were very touch and go with getting the car to the end of the pit lane before the lights go out, the driver could just floor it.

I don't think this is what Schumacher did and I don't think he gained an advantage today, but for the reason's I've stated and to keep things black and white I think it is the right thing to do to penalise a driver who speeds in the pit lane during a formation lap.

Having said all this, I suspect the penalty for speeding in the pit lane during qualifying is a fine? If that's the case I would argue that this should be penalised with a grid penalty instead as well, because an extra second gained in the pit lane could make all the difference if a team have left it a little late to send the driver out.

In summary, in my opinion ANY speeding in the pit lane on Saturday or Sunday should be penalised with a grid drop or a drive through. My opinion counts for nothing of course, it's what the rules say that counts. But I think this is probably what the rules are intended to say, at least for race day.

EDIT: All of this is without even considering the safety implications, which, like Fenderman says, is the whole point.
 
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