When is a race not a race?

Well I'm saying he did commit the offence under the start procedure and so are the stewards he was speeding in the pit lane whilst the start procedure regs where in force and so is bound by those rules.

But maybe the rules need clarifying it wouldnt be the first time far from it in fact.
 
A whudda whudda whudda what?

Which part of the start procedure regulations did he break? They need to clarify when a race is considered to have started, possibly (although I would still think that most people would interpret a race to have started when the race starts) but the starting and pit regulations seem pretty clear to me.
 
Some things cannot be explained by reg's, the FIA or Brundle... karma... after nearly sending Barrichello on a rendezvous to join Ayrton the other year... p'haps he was due a monumental cluster of a race...
 
So the question is of the second formation lap. I'd reckon the drive through was out of proportion to any advantage gained, it seems a little like they were unnecessarily kick the old man when he was down.
 
The second formation lap does seem to be the issue and if you read the reg again it states that all drivers must respect the pit lane speed limit.

All drivers is inclusive NOT exclusive....
 
No-one is disputing the speed limit was broken.

What we are trying to get to the bottom of is whether it should have been a fine or a drive through.
 
teabagyokel drive-throughs have always had the potential to be disproportionate, depending on race circumstances at the time of issue - e.g. if a safety car comes out or has recently gone in, a driver can lose a huge number of positions compared to if the cars are more strung out - but in this case I think it was fair, given that the transgressor broke two separate safety rules.

In a way, the whole argument about whether or not the race had technically started is some what spurious; the pit lane was full of personnel who would have effectively been operating as if in race conditions. With the primary concern of the stewards being the safety of these people, I think they were quite justified in giving the penalty they did.
 
Yes well according to this reg it could have been exclusion, like I said the stewards can interpret the rules the way they see fit.

38.15 The stewards may use any video or electronic means to assist them in reaching a decision. The stewards may overrule judges of fact. A breach of the provisions of the Code or these Sporting Regulations relating to the starting procedure, may result in the exclusion of the car and driver concerned from the Event.

The overrule judges of fact bit says everything to me......

It's like any sport you can't argue with the ref unless you want to get into even more hot water...

I still believe they were right though...:)
 
Mephistopheles said:
Well for one thing he parked in the wrong bloody starting slot..:D
Click to expand
He got off very lightly from that offense. He made a mess of the starting procedure, either by accident or willingly, and didn't even get penalized for that. (I say "either by accident or willingly", because I can't really believe that he did it by accident. The most experienced driver in the field rolling up to the wrong startslot? Really?)
Andrea_Moda_Rules said:
Think Schumacher needs a new lawyer?? LOL
Click to expand
I think he needs new glasses.
 
Mephistopheles said:
The second formation lap does seem to be the issue and if you read the reg again it states that all driversmust respect the pit lane speed limit.

All drivers is inclusive NOT exclusive....
Click to expand

The beginning of that sentence reads "When leaving the grid to complete the extra formation lap..."

As Schumacher wasn't leaving the grid to complete an extra formation lap that sentence didn't apply to him. That sentence refers to the drivers who are not being wheeled into the pit lane. It really is very clear.
 
Something has just occurred to me my memory was jogged after reading what someone else wrote on this forum about the official start of the race it wasn't mentioned directly but it is significant.

At Indianapolis in 2005 all the Michelin runners pulled into the pits after the parade lap the reason they took the grid and completed the parade lap was to comply with their contracts that they must start the race so by completing the parade lap they had officially by FIA regulations started the race.

So obviously under FIA rules the parade lap is the start of the race and not when the red lights go out....

I think you will find that I have proven that Mr Schumacher was penalize in the correct manner under race conditions...:chuffed:

And Mr Brundle can kiss my derrière. :D
 
That's certainly an interesting point, and the official results do seem to show them as DNF and not DNS. It is still ambiguous though, and I can still see nothing in the regulations covering that type of situation either. Don't forget that it isn't just the FIA that have to be satisfied though. Whether or not it is covered in the Concorde Agreement is anyone's guess, as we'll likely never know what that document contains.
 
It is very ambiguous and really needs clarifying their is one more thing that is written into the rules and that is no matter how many times the start is aborted another parade lap will take place and the race shortened by another lap even if this happens 70 times in a 70 lap race the race will still count and championship points will still be given....

So in theory there could be a race without one single racing lap having taken place, not likely I know but it is in the rules...
 

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