Tyre Allocations and Team Quota for 2011

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
With Pirelli developing tyres that will be down to the wire after 15-25 laps, and last years Bridgestones known to be well capable of double that - more like 35-50 laps. Where does this leave the teams during Free Practice at the GPs? Where with last years quotas and very enduring tyres, the teams felt it necessary to limit running.

I've not read any changes to quotas for FP, except the agreement that development tyres will be run occasionally in FP1.

Does this mean we are to witness even more empty tarmac and tumble weed this year in a desperate bid to not run out of fresh rubber over the weekend?
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
The teams will no doubt complain about it, but what choice do they have?

If they want to improve they will have to go out in practice. Personally I was satisfied by the amount of running last year - the first half hours are usually a non-event but it's made somewhat enjoyable by the excellent guys at 5 Live.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Agreed, this is my point. Consider the teams will now also need to retain at least 2 extra sets for the race due to increased pit stops and the available running time for practice cuts itself further...

With no in-season testing, FP sessions are now well rooted to in-season development as well as simply GP practice and this clearly needs to continue for the teams to develop. I just wonder if (and hope) the FIA at some point will be willing to look at quotas and increase them due to this since the fact of the matter is, if the teams are allocated the same number of tyres as last year, the mileage they can cover (Friday through to Sunday) is effectively halved. I'm not sure that this is a good thing for anyone. Not just for the sake of us spectators, not just for the sake of the teams, for the sake of the whole sport and its continued development.
 

tooncheese

Hans Heyer
Contributor
Pirelli are in a good situation here, if they balls it up and make dreadful tyres they can just say that they did it on purpose for overtaking, and save their image.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Yeah, I'm obviously not making myself clear, sorry. I'm not bashing anyone. Not Pirelli, not the teams, not the smelly kid, I'm just making one simple point:

Tyre quoter's for weekends were set in place while using very long lasting, durable tyres. This year as far as i know, this quota has not been changed, however the tyres have, for much faster wearing ones (no bad thing in itself). This in theory means the cars can potentially only travel half the distance they could last year and already last year we saw the teams having to manage tyre use over the weekend very carefully, with the number of tyres available. I believe the FIA to have set these quotas based on estimated mileage possible on the tyres of the time. so..

1. What are your thoughts on how this will effect practice, development and racing? Good, bad or otherwise and 2. Does anyone know something i don't. i.e. A planned increase in quotas? Test only tyres? The FIA already looking into it? The FIA wanting the teams to need to manage usage much more closely? We've not seen the tyres in their comfortable temperature ranges, lets wait until then? Et cetera Et cetera Et cetera
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Here's an interesting snippet from Nick Heidfeld:

Autosport

Q. Pirelli has mentioned the possibility of giving the teams experimental tyres for the Fridays. Would you be in favour of that?
NH: It depends on how good we look at the first races. If we are very strong and we seem to get along better with the tyres than others, then no. This is very clear. On one side you always like to have better tyres and a quicker car and all that, but if it suiting you well then you don?t want to change it.
Why I like this idea from another perspective is because we will not do a lot of driving. We have seen in testing that the tyres don't last very long compared to the Bridgestones, and it's not going to be the best thing for the spectators. On Friday for the first session we have one set of tyres, so you will not see a lot of driving. That is what I am more worried about, for the people who are watching.
Q. Do you think we might be surprised in a few areas when the season starts?
NH: I think we might be surprised in the pecking order, because that is more difficult than ever to know. And there might be some differences in the tyre life depending on the temperatures. I think the teams now after the testing and race simulations know that we will have a lot more stops, but I think it's going to be new for the spectators, and also new strategy-wise.
You can try to simulate and calculate a lot of things, but as we've seen in the past, things change. In the first races people go with different strategies, but after four races or so, everybody knows what to expect. This is what will be interesting at the beginning.
Q. Obviously everybody will be trying to keep as many tyres for the race as possible, so does this mean we'll see one-shot qualifying?
NH: It totally depends on the pace of your car. The difference between the tyres is clearly bigger than it was with Bridgestone, so even the quicker cars might need to take the option tyres whereas in the past they might have gone through on the hard tyres. Now the difference is so big that maybe they will have to use [option] tyres earlier.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
For those of us who don't watch Practice :twisted: it is going to be fantastic. It means development is going to be even more "hit and hope" than it previously was, which will be good for the unpredictability value.

CTA.jpg
"Not listening - it'll be fine!"

Of course the Friday attendees should not be short changed so upping the quota may not be a terrible idea, but the most important thing is the race and the new crap tyres will help the race be more exciting, hopefully.

CTA II.jpg
"Not be shortchanged? Not in my F1"
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
It's an excellent point Grizzly and one I raised prior to last season.
As we saw, there were times when teams were forced to limit their activity on the circuit to ensure they had enough tyres to last the race.

This season will only be worse I feel, for the reason you've mentioned.

For me, introducing all these limits and turning the whole season into a bit of a lottery with regards to who got it right in the pre-season development, is just another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

It's 2 weeks to the first race and I can honestly say, I really couldn't care less this year.
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
It's an excellent point Grizzly and one I raised prior to last season.
As we saw, there were times when teams were forced to limit their activity on the circuit to ensure they had enough tyres to last the race.

This season will only be worse I feel, for the reason you've mentioned.

For me, introducing all these limits and turning the whole season into a bit of a lottery with regards to who got it right in the pre-season development, is just another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

It's 2 weeks to the first race and I can honestly say, I really couldn't care less this year.
Can we add a "don't like" feature?
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
It's an excellent point Grizzly and one I raised prior to last season.
As we saw, there were times when teams were forced to limit their activity on the circuit to ensure they had enough tyres to last the race.

This season will only be worse I feel, for the reason you've mentioned.

For me, introducing all these limits and turning the whole season into a bit of a lottery with regards to who got it right in the pre-season development, is just another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

It's 2 weeks to the first race and I can honestly say, I really couldn't care less this year.

Yeah, a little unpredictability is good, but not having the tools for the job... that is never going to be a good thing, surely! We could see all kinds of random activity with teams that have needed to do miles on Friday/Saturday simply have no decent rubber left. Leading to additional pit stops, other cars getting clogged up.. i think there are justified concerns here.

The teams NEED to develop during the year, we know this, and this happens (indeed it can only happen) in the FP sessions. If they do not have tyres to roll round on, EVERYTHING will stagnate.

If F1 wants to continue to head the hierarchy that is motorsport, it must continue to out-develop other series and there are one or two restrictions creeping in that could severely hinder this.

Engine technology comes from F1, the reason our cars sip petrol and develop twice the power/displacement of an American car engine, is inexplicably linked to F1. Since the engine ban, have we stagnated European/Japanese engine development? its too early to tell..

I understand the FIA's attempts to stop massive budgets running away with all the glory, but F1 is a development race, always has been, and we live in a world that dictates survival of the fittest. That is an inescapable truth, and mollycoddling the weak does you no favors in the long run.

Short tyre life tyres is great IMO, but let the teams have enough tools for the job! One set of tyres for each practice session is not going to cut it! The teams will not even be able to run both compounds in a session without scrubbing a set of race tyres...
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Can we add a "don't like" feature?
Brogan made a point about McLaren and their form in the car thread that i wanted a 'don't like' button for, in a kind of, yeah your correct, but its a horrible truth, kind of way...
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
We could see all kinds of random activity with teams that have needed to do miles on Friday/Saturday simply have no decent rubber left. Leading to additional pit stops, other cars getting clogged up.. i think there are justified concerns here.

I'm struggling to see how having used the tyres up during the Friday and Saturday, that would lead to more pit-stops. Wouldn't they rather curtail their practice than get into a mess on Sunday and compromise their strategy? Your scenario could happen the first few races but critically, I think
  • the teams will adapt to the way the tyres react
  • the tyres will alter as a result of the Friday tyre testing
  • the current spec of tyres still not have had race experience
Also consider that genuinely, I believe the teams and Pirelli have given themselves enough space to change if needs be. As I say I think the tyres will change over the course of the season and I feel we may see some more consistent, better-holding up tyres later in the year. If it turns out that these tyres really are not suitable for the current formula then I don't doubt that Pirelli will have to change it.

The teams NEED to develop during the year, we know this, and this happens (indeed it can only happen) in the FP sessions. If they do not have tyres to roll round on, EVERYTHING will stagnate.

Yes, I think we can all agree on this, and again, the teams must know this as well. If teams don't feel they can do enough practice during the Friday sessions, they will complain. Which leads into my previous point, that I think they have enough space to change and to improve (read : prolong) the performance of the tyres.

Short tyre life tyres is great IMO, but let the teams have enough tools for the job! One set of tyres for each practice session is not going to cut it! The teams will not even be able to run both compounds in a session without scrubbing a set of race tyres...

We don't even know this yet. Can we please wait for a couple of races, of full weekends, to happen, before we make grandiose claims about the woes of such tyres?
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
Thanks for the input Enja.

Yes a lot is speculation, and a lot is a prediction at the far extremes. I would say I'm just putting the possible scenarios out there.

I fully expect the teams to quickly adapt and make the best of the tyres, but the regs say they have 11 sets for the whole weekend... Just three of these are limited to FP1 and FP2 (two prime, one option), so OK, they have 1 & a 1/2 sets... The expected and accepted plan is for at least 2, most likely 3 in race stops, so three minimum, likely four sets needed. There are three qualifying sessions that require fresh rubber to gain top times. Nearly everyone but the very fastest car/cars (have needed to in the past at least...) run twice (6 more sets). There's not many left....

You sound like me talking about the rear wings saying "just wait until we see what happens!" So how can i argue with that!

But here is the hard facts of the matter:

  • The teams found themselves very carefully managing tyre use over the course of the weekend last year, to ensure they had enough for each stage, and every eventuality.
  • This years tyres have been specifically developed to burn out quicker than last years Bridgestones.
  • The 2010 quota was 14 sets per weekend.
  • The 2011 quota is reduced to 11.
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
It's all fair points Grizzly but I still believe that if it becomes a significant enough problem, they will change it. That's why I'm not worried too much about it, certainly in the long term.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
but I still believe that if it becomes a significant enough problem, they will change it.

That's my hope too. That's all they need to do IMO. Increase the quota to allow for the reduced mileage possible.

We don't have too long to wait now either :snacks:
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I feel a bit sorry for people who've bought tickets to Friday only. Even those don't come cheap.

But if teams really aren't running at all, or only doing installation laps, then it will be changed of course, as Enja intimates.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
So it would seem that they created that new rule about testing experimental tyres specifically so they could bend the rule limiting the tyres available to 11.

They are as cunning as foxes! Admittedly, foxes that have had their brains removed and replaced with brains made by Intel and programmed by Microsoft. :twisted:
 
Top Bottom