Two or three car teams?

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I also enjoyed that one c_a_t

Joey Saward had a nice piece today as well and took pretty much everybody involved in running the sport to task. He has been promoting the idea that the FIA may play the ultimate savior role one day.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/the-plight-of-the-little-teams/

Another interesting tidbit in there is that these "defunct" teams could exist only on paper and still be allowed to turn up for Round 4 next season without breaking their contractual obligations. Not that something like that is likely though.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I went on wikipedia yesterday looking for info on the Lotus 76. When I went to the 1974 Formula 1 season stats, even I was surprised to find that there were 30 TEAMS vying for spots on the grids that season! Admittedly, some of them were basically one-man operations only interested in qualifying for their home GP, but what a stark contrast to where Bernie has landed us!

It shows that, in the Cosworth era, costs were such that you didn't need a weapons-system type budget to aspire to making the F1 grid. What a refreshing change to today, IMO.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I went on wikipedia yesterday looking for info on the Lotus 76. When I went to the 1974 Formula 1 season stats, even I was surprised to find that there were 30 TEAMS vying for spots on the grids that season! Admittedly, some of them were basically one-man operations only interested in qualifying for their home GP, but what a stark contrast to where Bernie has landed us!

It shows that, in the Cosworth era, costs were such that you didn't need a weapons-system type budget to aspire to making the F1 grid. What a refreshing change to today, IMO.

Just 12 teams managed to score a point in '74 however. 10 of which were powered by the vaunted Cossie.

Fully 42 drivers participated in the 1974 season without scoring a point.

What this has to do with 2015 and beyond is unclear. I would say next to nothing.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
I have no issue with more cars on the grid but if it ever happened then the qualifying format would have to change...
I for one had no issue with the qualifying format. That was another Bernie thing. "Oh there's nothing happening for 50 minutes of the hours so we have to make the cars run so that the sponsors all get TV time" "one run each, that looks good, oh wait no it doesn't" "Right, let's run a knock out format"

Once again, if you were a fan of the sport, not a casual fan or a sponsor, there was nothing wrong with qually. So if they had to change it for more teams it would be a ho hum moment if ever there was one.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
If there were more teams I would suggest a pre qualifying format dependant on a drivers finishing position in the previous race including retirements...
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
The trouble is Mephistopheles it comes back to money. No team would want to take part in pre-qually knowing that they wouldn't make it into a race and therefore get a share of the cash. Those days are long gone. Even if they did, they wouldn't last too long as they wouldn't be able to win any money from a race weekend.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
The lack of minnows showing up to compete for the honor of bringing up the rear is of no consequence when assessing the supreme sporting nature of Formula One. Pre-qualifying is a relic from a bye-gone era born out of necessity and was more of an inconvenience than anything. I've watched several of those old pre-Quali sessions and it was more Amateur-hour than F1.

The sporting aspect of Formula One is still undoubtedly its shining beacon. The thousands of men and women employed by the larger combatants give their heart and soul to the sport. These people are competing day in and day out with the expectation of being the best. They have no interest in "putting on a show", they want to win.

Just because the Suits behind the scenes are far more interested in entertainment and the bottom line (and have been for 40+ years), that certainly does not diminish the marvelous sporting achievements that these folks achieve on an annual basis.
 
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Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
KekeTheKing what is the definition of a "Big, professional" team as opposed to a "Minnow" team only there to make up the numbers and not seemingly deserving of a place in the sport, at least in your eyes? Anyway, who says the former have a monopoly on passion, and wanting to win?

What about Williams? They haven't always been a 'big' team, certainly they weren't right at the start; and many thought, until this season, that they were on a downward spiral that could have seen them ultimately going under. Or Renault - are they, were they ever, a big team?

And where do Red Bull fit in? Were they a 'big' team when Sir Jackie Stewart and his son Paul founded Stewart Grand Prix?

And don't forget, Mercedes only came into the sport (in the current era) by buying out Brawn, who had saved the former joke Honda team and turned them into a title-winning outfit.

If someone with the stature of Alonso (who made his break into F1 with Minardi) says that the small teams are essential to the sport, that's good enough for me.

Everyone has to start somewhere and I for one wish to see independent teams, large or small, remain in the sport. If they are bullied out by the greed and self-interest of those at the top, so that all we have left are three or four manufacturer-based 'Superteams' running 3 or 4 cars each, it will have ceased to be the sport that I have loved so much for all these years.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I think it's always been obvious who the "minnows" are. The teams that wouldn't win even if everyone else retired that day, because they probably would too.

And if Alonso didn't come in with Minardi he would have come in with somebody else.

Manufacturers are modern day F1's bread and butter. The disappearance of Caterham and Marussia says absolutely nothing to me about the sporting nature of Formula One.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
To me the loss of small teams is of tremendous importance to the sport. It is worth remembering that Lauda basically created his own team to get into F1. He had to do it on the sly because his father didn't approve. And without small teams, James Hunt would never have made it into F1. His reputation (nickname Hunt "the Shunt") meant that no large teams were willing to take him on. It took the faith of Lord Hesketh in him to see that he got his break.

Those are just two examples of how small teams brought future WDCs onto the grid when larger teams never would have.
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
If there were more teams there would need to be pre-qualifying. That could simply be taken from the times recorded in free practice. It used to happen before.
 
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