The Triple Crown

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
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There are two differing definitions of what constitutes motorsport's Triple Crown. Either definition would result in Graham Hill being the only driver to meet the awarding criteria.

One definition is to have won the Formula 1 World drivers championship, the Indy 500 and the Le Mans 24 Hours.

The other, and often quoted as the more common use of the Triple Crown definition still has Indy and Le Mans but says the winner of the Monaco grand prix. These were chosen for being the oldest and most prestigious races in their relevant series.

My argument is that quite clearly in this day and age, Monaco is no longer the most prestigious race in F1. Just because its been around for a while doesn't make it the greatest race on the F1 calendar. There's no chance to overtake,, very little risk these days and in a packed calendar it's just another race.

Here's the question then, what do we put forward to replace it with as F1's entrant into the triple crown? Which race is the biggest challenge to win or the most prestigious these days? Or am I wrong and does Monaco still deserve its place as the jewel in F1's Crown?
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Monaco still is the one to win on the F1 calendar for any driver but its becoming less meaningful.

More means less which is what is happening the additional races devalues races like Monaco.

The main races you still want to win are Italian GP , Belgian GP when it was a proper race.

Winning Abu Dhabi in style seems to add more prestige
 
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The Artist.....

Champion Elect
The other, and often quoted as the more common use of the Triple Crown definition still has Indy and Le Mans but says the winner of the Monaco grand prix. These were chosen for being the oldest and most prestigious races in their relevant series.
The problem with this definition is that Monaco is not the oldest F1 race, nor can it claim to have held the most world championship F1 races.

Monza held Grand Prix back in 1922 (7 years before Monaco)... Monza has been on the F1 calendar every year except 1980. (Monaco has been absent for 3 years).
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
Don't know where the new definition of triple crown came from but Monaco wasn't one, Triple Crown, F1 WDC, Indie 500, Le Mans, and as far as I know Graham Hill may be the only one, Jim Clark never won Le Mans. According to Wikipedia there are two options but I don't know when Monaco was added as an option, so despite all the screaming and shouting Graham Hill must be the G.O.A.T he has the Triple Crown on both counts
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
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Well, if we are to suggest the triple crown is the F1 WDC when all the others are single races then it would make sense that one version is the F1 WDC, the Indy Car Series and the World Endurance Series while the other version is the 3 individual races, Monaco, Indy and Le Mans.

Graham Hill is definitely the only man to have won both of the current definitions of the Triple Crown.

Jim Clark's best Le Mans finish was third in 1960.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
cider_and_toast - the reason that the triple crown (used to be) WDC, Indy 500 and Le Mans was that Indy and Le Mans were races that individuals would enter, without entering the entire championship - so Lotus went to Indy without entering the entire Indy series...
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
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cider_and_toast - the reason that the triple crown (used to be) WDC, Indy 500 and Le Mans was that Indy and Le Mans were races that individuals would enter, without entering the entire championship - so Lotus went to Indy without entering the entire Indy series...
Yeah, I know all this, I was just raising a point to Dartman's question over definitions. It makes no difference to me which way around it is.

Personality, I would say balls to prestige and if you wanted to represent the 3 biggest tests of man and machine to represent the triple crown, it would have been winning Le Mans, the Indy 500 and at the full 14km of the Ring in Germany.

Once again, Graham Hill would be the only person to have done all three.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I suppose there is one reason why you should define the triple crown as Le Mans, Indy, Monaco - that would mean that Mario Andretti wouldn't have gained the triple crown! :D
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
I think basically that the Triple Crown is European, the Indy (Indie) 500 was a peculiar American type of racing and a one off all crowning race as was LeMans for Sports cars, though there were a number of F1 GPs that were challenging none were really oustandingly challenging, Spa, the Nuremberg Ring and Monaco being probably the toughest, with a reasonably short series of around 9 faces the WDC was chosen and proved the driver was the complete driver. Seeing as F1 drivers do nothing else thes days I assume Graham Hill will be on a short list of One, unless Sir Lewis has go :whistle:
 
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cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
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At the moment, of living drivers all be it some are very long in the tooth now:

Alonso has the WDC, Monaco and Le Mans and needs the Indy 500.

Montoya has Monaco and the Indy 500 and needs Le Mans

Jacques Villeneuve, Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi all have the WDC and Indy 500 and need Le Mans.

AJ Foyt has the Indy 500 and Le Mans and needs the Monaco GP / F1 WDC.

Every other challenger with two out of the three legs of the Triple Crown are sadly no longer with us.

Of the surviving challengers I'd say the least likely to complete it is Montoya LOL
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
At the moment, of living drivers all be it some are very long in the tooth now:

Alonso has the WDC, Monaco and Le Mans and needs the Indy 500.

Montoya has Monaco and the Indy 500 and needs Le Mans

Jacques Villeneuve, Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi all have the WDC and Indy 500 and need Le Mans.

AJ Foyt has the Indy 500 and Le Mans and needs the Monaco GP / F1 WDC.

Every other challenger with two out of the three legs of the Triple Crown are sadly no longer with us.

Of the surviving challengers I'd say the least likely to complete it is Montoya LOL
Sorry - my error - I remembered Andretti winning le mans - but it was only a class win!
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Don't know where the new definition of triple crown came from but Monaco wasn't one, Triple Crown, F1 WDC, Indie 500, Le Mans, and as far as I know Graham Hill may be the only one, Jim Clark never won Le Mans. According to Wikipedia there are two options but I don't know when Monaco was added as an option, so despite all the screaming and shouting Graham Hill must be the G.O.A.T he has the Triple Crown on both counts
Mario Andretti was pursuing winning Le Man's 24 hours for years after F1 title and Indy500

I think Alonso wants Indy500 for the triple crown
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
Many want it, only one made it and I don't think Alonso's temperent suits the Indy 500, he's not a team player and doesn't have the patience to pace himself through the average running pace and fuel saving. For a future contestant I don't really see one, thought Mansell might have had a go but failing at Indy knocked that on the head
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
i would say Italy has the biggest claim to it. but monaco is great test of a drivers skill all season you need to be perfect & like perez said there are 2 F1 races people grow up dreaming of winning. Home GP & Monaco. for me id add winning for Ferrari at monza
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Monaco has lost its appeal and having watched the RACE on YouTube giving reasons why it could the last Monaco or with a shorter race contract. Whilst it might be a shame its gone, the race organisers are not willing to bend to the F1 in regards to

Sponsorship Rolex their own vs Tag Heur which is F1 's

Television control so we will get lousy camera action

Making the circuit more easier to pass - they don't give a to$$ especially the chicane and swimming pool section

Race fee is still small compared to say the middle East races

I have to say the only people who seem regret missing it are the drivers for its prestige but we can't keep having these processional races now. Before you could at least go for a half chance to pass now its probably less than 25% to be honest as Alonso proved holding a train behind him

Before it was undroppable but unless much is done to the circuit layout this stand off may continue until it us bye bye Monaco
 
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