Shares in Williams?

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Just read this on the BBC website. Given the history of other sports teams (football mainly) on the stock market I'm not sure how succesful this will be for Williams but it's an interesting development development. If the current share holders maintain a controlling interest I suppose it eliminates the risk of aggresive take overs and all the other nonsense which destabilise otherwise healthy companies.

Wonder if FW regrets not getting into bed with BMW all those years ago?
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
With Williams being at such low ebb, I cannot imagine that any shares would command much of a price. The primary asset would be intellectual property and the worth of that vs that of other teams, would not appear to be very compelling.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
I don't think people will buy shares for a return on their money, so much as to say they own part of a racing team. I think this is a clever fund raising scheme aimed at the fans, rather than investors. If I had a spare £1-200 or so, I'd probably buy some for that reason.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
There's a picture in yesterday's Autosport of Maldonado doing a publicity run in Caracas, and the only sponsors visible on the car are Oris watches and PDVSA.

I hate to say it smacks of desperation, but I agree with siffert_fan - they can't be using this as a means to find serious investment.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
To be honest, i dont know too much about shareholding. But from football it seems something that could go either way.

surely there must be benifits for some people to invest in this. PDVSA or whatever there called for instance must have some intrest in a stake in the team. Also has williams is a very reputable name in f1 where perhpas other big teams have some on them to use a metaphor. I could see a company or even rich indiviual willing to part with a few quid to help a team struggling a little.

i fear something like what happened at Man Utd and liverpool could happen with Williams though. Being fully taken over by a company/rich indiviual (group of) who perhaps don't have the best intrest of the team or formula 1 at heart and are just looking for a quick buck or plaything. But i don't know weather that could happen if only a portion of the team is floated where mAn Utd and Liverpool i belive were full floated on the stock-market.

hopefully though this is a buisness decision that has financial benifits and not a last ditch desprate attempt to rescue a sinking ship.

I would love to know more about how its done if anybody is a bit of an expert about it.

If it does happen perhaps some of us lot should scrape a few quid to together and buy a small portion of the stakeholding. We might only get a small chance to decide what colour coffee mugs are used at Grove, but at least we could say we own a small part of a race team. :D
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Its quite a complex process to go public.The whole of Williams which means the factory, the land, the conference centre are all valued by Stock Exchange appproved valuers.All of the assets, the tools, wind tunnel,simulator etc are included in this valution.
Accounts from all businness activies are audited.Whether or not Williams Hybrid would be included is not stated.
IP and all current stocks are valued so it all adds up to a tidy sum.
Having shares would not give you any say in how the company is run.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
sportsman said:
Having shares would not give you any say in how the company is run.

Ah, think im getting mixed up with these 'buy a part of (insert intresting thing here)' that have popped up online where people pay up a small price to become a part of a huge group of people who control the thing they brought and everyone gets a vote on it.

Dont think ive explained it too well but there were one for a football club and one for a race team but that bombed.

Still i like the idea of owning a small part of Williams even if its 0.001% :D, what ya think a tenner will give me? :p
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12370825

looks like the Williams stock flotation is going to happen with the Team being floated on the German Stockmarket, Shares will be available to the public in the UK and several other countries.

Will this mark the start of a new format for F1 team funding or is this going to provide a short term cash fix but a long term nightmare for the team.

I'm really struglling to think of a sports company that could be considered a blue chip investment. Maybe huge global football brands such as Real Madrid and Manchester United or some of the US Football teams such as the Dallas Cowboys but that's about it. In terms of getting a return on your investment I think most sports shares are for fans who would accept they're never going to make more than a few pence on each share. To my mind it's more trouble than it's worth.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I don't think that a few pennies on each share is very likely. .01 pence dividend you would be lucky.Look at the amount of shares on offer.2,739,383 thats a lot of shares.You would need an awful lot of fans to buy a fair chunk of shares each to get rid of that lot.
For any one of us to buy any would be a waste time.You will never make anything on your money.
You won't get any say in how the company is run.To even raise a question at the annual shareholders meeting most companies have rule applying to shareholders which are usually that only shareholders with at least a 10% stockholding can raise questions.Buying a few shares and hoping that you get pitlane access or factory access you are hoping in vain.
The only company in the group that is worth anything is Williams Flybrid Power.The F1 team itself has very little value to any investment company.Desperation is about the right word.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
Is this definitely going ahead as I can't see this on the WilliamsF1 site and they are usually pretty good at keeping updated on these deals. If true is it just the team or would it include Williams Hybrid Power given they have a majority stake in this and it's based at their headquarters in Grove?

I always thought if I won the Euromillions I'd give Frank a call and buy a stake in Williams. The centre is well worth a visit.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
Ah yes I saw that but my trust in BBC reporting has gone down somewhat. Apparently Coulthard was an ex Ferrari driver!
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
There's a picture in yesterday's Autosport of Maldonado doing a publicity run in Caracas, and the only sponsors visible on the car are Oris watches and PDVSA.
I don't think that car was necessarily an indication of the sum total of William's sponsors or lack of them, rather a specific livery relevant to the Venezuelan launch. The title sponsor is still AT&T is it not? And yet their logo was missing on that car.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
I don't think that car was necessarily an indication of the sum total of William's sponsors or lack of them, rather a specific livery relevant to the Venezuelan launch. The title sponsor is still AT&T is it not? And yet their logo was missing on that car.
That is the Williams interim livery so you are probably correct.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
It said that the price range of shares would be between 24 and 29 Euros - which values the company at 265 million Euros at the mid-price range.
Still doesn't say what parts of Williams are included.If it includes Williams Flybrid Power which has just completed a deal with Magnetti Marelli to use their flywheel based system in Magnetti Marelli KERS systems, then they look good value.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Has Frank Williams upset the world of tabloid journalists? I recall a piece on the BBC some time ago by Mihir Bose (thank heavens he longer works for the BBC) at the beginning of the banking crisis suggesting Williams' demise and now the Evening Standard has decide to have a go.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...liams-gears-up-for-float-but-sponsors-quit.do

The journalists at the ES have come up with the amazing "find" that having lost RBS as title sponsor Williams sponsorship income has dropped by £21 million or 43%. However, Pastor Maldonazo is bringing an "estimated" £9 million (no source is cerdited with this estimate however and this is partly funded by the Venezualan national oil company which ain't short of a bob or two) and the team turned a £4.5 million pre-tax profit in 2009.

Oh, and here's a shocker, when the F1 arms race was at it's peak Williams lost £5.9 million over the 5 years prior to 2009 trying to compete with the likes of Honda, Toyota, FIAT/Ferrari and the Mercedes backed McLaren team. There's no mention of F1's current budget cap rules or the austerity measure the FIA is introducing. Lazy, lazy journalism as far as I'm concerned; either that or there is some sort of vendeta against Sir Frank at the time when he is trying to float part of the company.
 

Pyrope

Podium Finisher
Supporter
Hmm... based on the floatation price mentioned and Williams F1's profits in 2009, that gives a p/e ratio of somewhat over 50, depending on how their accounting folk have set up that "profit". I'm assuming that the technology side of the business has scope for growth in the next few years, but they'd have to be turning a profit of over 20 million quid a year to support that valuation, and I seriously doubt they will do that in the next few years. That's pretty poor as far as an investment prospect goes, especially in such a volatile and unpredictable business as motor racing. Add in the fact that you know the chap at the head of the company is 100% focused on racing success (even to the extent of running a deficit during most of the 2000s) and I doubt you are going to find any committed financial folk taking this float very seriously.

If you want to buy shares to have a nice certificate on the wall then go ahead, just don't expect this to make you rich.
 
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