Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[RasputinLives]

Second most overtakes in the race and only overtaken once on track. Plus recovered from having to do an extra pitstop.

Caught and overtook three dueling drivers who were struggling to get past each other and did it without issue.

Oh and one bailed overtake which is a good thing as we all saw what happens when you don't bail in that situation.

No. I stand by my view. I did watch every minute of every session after all

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Why did he have an extra pitstop forcing him to have to catch and pass cars that would have been slower than him on the same aged tyres? Sounds like making hard work for yourself to me. A job of limiting his own damage directly correlated to his inability to run the optimum strategy or extract maximum performance. What's your opinion on his respect for circuit limits?

 

[RasputinLives]

I don't like any driver not respecting circuit limits but I think its odd Vettel is singled out for it by yourself. Alonso was all four wheels off the track on numerous occasions, as was Rosberg and many others. However this appears to be the only place you are posting about it.

FB already posting info on the tyre wear issue so I won't repeat that.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Just realised I didn't post this in the versus thread. To be honest, Vettel and Ricciardo are just a more interesting topic. Raikonnen is just anonymous this year so there is not much to talk about. Alonso made some pretty edgy moves that took him off circuit. Over-aggressive. Vettel systematically extended the circuit lap after lap. Still no wiser on tyres. Seems Seb's thrashed them and Danny didn't. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[RasputinLives]

So Alonso going outside the track limits is aggressive moves but when Vettel does it then its systematically thought out?

Hmmm. Ok.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I said over aggressive. I'm not lauding him for it. It was dumb and it cost him too. Vettel, does it every lap. Even when not in a wheel to wheel battle. That is systematic rather than opportunistic. Albeit both being misguided. If they are going to let him get away with it and he feels it's faster then fair enough. A lot of people went a lot faster within the confines of the circuit though. It looks desperate. He's trying to find time off track when it's clear that the tome he is losing to his teammate is on the track. Are you Seb's Dad or does he pay you to come on here and defend him from any criticism?

 

[RasputinLives]

Yes. I am Seb's father.

So he did it every lap?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

You should spank his bottom then. There were three corner exits that I saw him 4 wheels over lap after lap on the majority of those that were televised. The cars around him, or any others that I observed were not guilty of the same.

 

[RasputinLives]

Can you spank a mid-20's man without it coming across a bit kinky?

Well I've learnt not to bother arguing with you as your opinion is set in stone so I'm glad ypu saw what you saw.

I saw lots of drivers doing it. All season actually. Its been a seaaon long discussion by most in the media. No one appears to have singled out Vettel for this (apart from you).

Your opinion that he is looking for time off track is just that, an opinion. You have no way of knowing. You are projecting your own view on to someones actions to create a scenario you wish to see and thats great if you like that sort of thing but just because you've decided Schrodinger's cat is dead in the sealed box you can't tell me its impossible that its alive.

So, like I said before, I think Seb had a good race - I just think Ricciardo has an amazing one.

 

[KekeTheKing]

ExtremeNinja is spot on and I found it particularly noticeable in Spa as well. Vettel uses more of the "circuit" than anyone else and I have no doubt that's where he would find his time in past Red Bull cars. I put circuit in quotes because if it's at all possible, Seb will consistently go off the circuit in an effort to pick up time. This was fine when the car was planted to the earth, but its certainly not working in 2014.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I'm not expressing an opinion. In just saying that Seb was taking wide lines beyond the track limits. Of course that is set in stone. The only opinion I stated was that it was not pretty to watch. Others may find it perfectly acceptable. The stewards warned him but it was acceptable to them to the point that it was not reprimanded.

 

[RasputinLives]

It looks desperate. He's trying to find time off track when it's clear that the tome he is losing to his teammate is on the track.

Thats an opinion.

 

[Bill Boddy]

....So he did it every lap?

He did it so often that the team had to tell him that he would be penalised if it continued. The commentators said that the call would have been from Charlie Whiting.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Ok. I will leave open the possibility that he was driving off circuit on the same wide line accidentally on every lap. Sorry RasputinLives.

 

[RasputinLives]

*sigh*

Am I typing in english?

You said he is looking for time off the track because his team mate is faster than him which is you projecting your own decison making progress on to his brain.

I think he would take that line wherever his team mate was because thats how racing drivers think. Where can I gain time? I'm not saying its a good thing as I've made my feelings clear on it elsewhere and I'm not saying Vettel was not doing it. I was just pointing out that you it appears that people like to single him out for it and miss the fact others are just as guilty. It appears yet another stick to beat him over the head with.

The theory that he was so succesful for 4 years because he had a car which allowed him to drive off circuit is an interesting one and not one I heard at all during the 4 years he was actually winning. I'll have to go back and look at footage.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I'm singling him out because it appears others are not as guilty. He is singling himself out by the nature of his driving. There is no witch hunt. Interesting theory, Bill, that I have heard many times on this forum. There could well be something in it, although I pretty much dismissed it up to now.

 

[RasputinLives]

Guilty is guilty though right?

You dismissed Alonso doing it as over aggressive moves like that was ok. So you see why I am concerned you might be singling one individual out to prove an already expressed opinon.

If I said the sky was blue you would tell me that I was wrong and that it was a certain type of blue and that you knew this better than most because you've seen the sky every day of your life whilst talking to all you colour analysis friends.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Dizzy. Very very dizzy. I'll leave you to it Raspy.

 

[KekeTheKing]

not one I heard at all

Drivers (briefly) following Vettel were always amazed at what he could get away with. There can be little doubt he was driving the EBD cars in a different way than Webber and he had in fact mastered it. I believe that's certainly been to his detriment this season.

 

[RasputinLives]

Are you off over to the Alonso thread to say its pathetic he's looking for time off the track when he should find it on the track?

I hope you are or it might look to everyone that you just hate Sebastian Vettel.