Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[sportsman]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100897 Sebastian Vettel has reassured Red Bull Racing that he is not in talks with Ferrari, says RBR team principal Christian Horner, who expects the double world champion to remain with his squad into the future.
Speculation that Vettel could join Ferrari from 2014 has intensified in recent weeks, prompted in part by Ferrari chief Stefano Domenicali saying he could envisage Vettel and Fernando Alonso 'co-existing' as team-mates very successfully.
"I have spoken with Sebastian about it and he's made it quite clear that he hasn't had any dialogue and hasn't signed anything with Ferrari," Horner was quoted as saying by Reuters. "The rumour mill always will continue...
"I think most of our team has been going to Ferrari at some point this year, whether it be Adrian [Newey], Mark [Webber], Sebastian, even myself at one stage was supposed to be going."

 

[FB]

Christian: Seb, are you going to Ferrari?
Seb: Are you going to make me a winning car?
Christian: Yes
Seb: I'm staying
Christian: Cheers mush - have another £50 million

 

[KekeTheKing]

From the end of 2010 to the end of 2011, Seb won 14 of 21 Grands Prix held.

He's now won just 1 of the last 11 GP.

This is simply an observation I found interesting, not an indictment of his driving..

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

But Red Bull have won 3 race's in 9 races this year. I think Seb will win again this season the question is will his luck change to get that. Plus not to forget Vettel was leading the European GP by a country mile until the car let him down!

 

[Brogan]

When Vettel came out behind Button after his last stop today, there was a definite air of desperation.
He made a few mistakes attempting to pass Button and then of course with 2 laps to go passed him off track, resulting in a penalty which lost him a crucial 8 points.

I take this as a sign that Vettel knows that his third title in a row is under serious threat from Alonso.

 

[racecub]

After initially not warming to Vettel, I have found he has grown on me. He has a good sense of humour and is quick with the funny comments. But there are times he disappoints, the cucumber comments being one and Sunday another. Perhaps as Brogan suggests he sees the writing on the wall as to who will win this championship.
On Sunday he was critical of Lewis for overtaking him-hand gestures again and called him stupid. Lewis had every right to overtake Vettel, he was racing the cars in front of Vettel, he had a fast car with fresh tyres and he wanted to keep out of Jenson's way.Lewis did nothing wrong and Red Bull have agreed this. Then on the overtake of Jenson it was clear cut foul of the rules and obvious a penalty would come, but he didn't give the place back(but maybe that was poor advice from his team). It seems there are two Vettels. The fun guy and the guy who doesnt cope well if things dont go his way.

 

[Pyrope]

Don't forget "he didn't say anything to me!" during the podium interviews... Clearly not a guy who is entirely familiar with telling the truth.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

racecub... as a parallel...if the shoe was on the other foot... and Lewis was dicing with Alonso... and Vettel unlapped himself costing Lewis a chance at victory... I think the reaction would have been eerily similar with a standard Lewis hangdog radio message back to the pitwall where the "miffed" and "outraged" tone could have been picked up in China...

It was just a set of circumstances that any driver fighting for a win would be p!ssed off about methinks...

 

[siffert_fan]

Pyrope
Who was the last driver that got in trouble for lying?

 

[teabagyokel]

siffert_fan - There's only one driver ever prosecuted for lying, admittedly. I'm sure they all do it. Except possibly Karthikeyan, because last's last at the end of the day!

 

[siffert_fan]

siffert_fan - There's only one driver ever prosecuted for lying, admittedly. I'm sure they all do it. Except possibly Karthikeyan, because last's last at the end of the day!

TBY--I agree 100%, which is why I object to Pyrope's intimation that all drivers except Seb never lie, and that Seb never says anything that ISN'T a lie. What an utter load of rubbish.

 

[Jen]

The intelligent drivers don't lie on camera just to the stewards, perhaps?

 

[Josh]

It's not lying, it's called "stretching the truth" .

Besides, if you know you have to go to the stewards it would be pretty dumb to say "oh yeah I totally overtook him off track" on the podium and then go "oh no I didn't do anything Mr. Steward" in the stewards' room

 

[racecub]

racecub... as a parallel...if the shoe was on the other foot... and Lewis was dicing with Alonso... and Vettel unlapped himself costing Lewis a chance at victory... I think the reaction would have been eerily similar with a standard Lewis hangdog radio message back to the pitwall where the "miffed" and "outraged" tone could have been picked up in China...

It was just a set of circumstances that any driver fighting for a win would be p!ssed off about methinks...

Fair point. But Lewis didnt cost Vettel a victory. Vettel wasnt fast enough and goofed the overtake.

 

[Fenderman]

I don't usually like to interject in discussions that may just go "yo-yo" but just in case anyone is interested in yet another race-craft tip of the day ... Vettels reaction to being unlapped was not only unprofessional, it also betrayed a surprising lack of another simple technique of racecraft. Granted this is more commonly observed among the motorcycle road race fraternity but when a situation arises it applies equally to racing cars.

In essence it goes like this: if you are being caught by another competitor who is clearly faster at this stage of a race and that competitor is not a threat to your points paying position, then it is in your interests to let him/her pass at the earliest and easiest opportunity. Two things can then happen. The faster person may catch the one who you are in competition with for position and, if you are lucky, hinder them giving you an opportunity to close back up. Also, you can take advantage of the other guys pace and "slipstream" to "pull" you along.The key is in ceding to the faster bloke without losing concentration and momentum (guess who failed on both counts on Sunday). Oh, and yes, it is a skill but one that should be in every driver's arsenal.

That is so basic a part of race-craft that even 15 year-old Moto3 (as it now is or erstwhile 125cc) riders do it all the time. The ones who don't learn this basic rule quickly lose touch with the leading pack in motorcycle races. it is interesting to observe in the lower category motorsports how some of these folk have incredible pace, sometimes get out front but often fall to the wayside as they mis-manage their tyres and get involved in midfield scraps. Meanwhile, the guys using their noggins seem to mysteriously float back up to the front to fill the podium. That little bit of give and take is one of the means by which they achieve that.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Fair point. But Lewis didnt cost Vettel a victory. Vettel wasnt fast enough and goofed the overtake.

In hindsight yes... but the race wasn't decided when Lewis went around Vettel... there were plenty of laps to run...

 

[racecub]

In hindsight yes... but the race wasn't decided when Lewis went around Vettel... there were plenty of laps to run...

Yes, so Vettel saying Lewis cost him a win was erroneous. Lewis was entitled to overtake and it didnt cost seb the win.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Yes, so Vettel saying Lewis cost him a win was erroneous. Lewis was entitled to overtake and it didnt cost seb the win.

Did SV say that it cost him a win ? I didn't see that...

 

[GermanF1]

Rubens Barrichello should have been punished as well back in Hungary 2010. Just kidding.

 

[racecub]

Did SV say that it cost him a win ? I didn't see that...

I stand corrected if Ive got that wrong, I thought I'd read that he said that but I dont know where, I may have read it as speculation from someone else, sorry if that was the case ;he certainly said it cost him the place to Button.