Ron Dennis: "The truth will come out"

[teabagyokel]

At the start of Q3 Alonso was second in line, ahead of Raikkonen.

Yes, and Raikkonen was right up his back. There is no way that Hamilton could have slowed enough to let Alonso past without letting Raikkonen past.

It was a stitch up. The FIA then somehow failed to prevent Hamilton's title in a fit of pique in 2008, before getting Ron Dennis out of F1 in the aftermath of the second great McLaren stitch up, Liegate.

Put it this way, if every driver who has ever lied to stewards was disqualified from a race, there'd have been more than 1 case of this happening in 61 years!

 

[FB]

Put it this way, if every driver who has ever lied to stewards was disqualified from a race, there'd have been more than 1 case of this happening in 61 years!

I can't hear you...

 

[Josh]

McLaren stitch up, Liegate.

Put it this way, if every driver who has ever lied to stewards was disqualified from a race, there'd have been more than 1 case of this happening in 61 years!

Except that Hamilton and Mclaren were so stupid to keep denying it when evidence which was played to them proved them wrong. If they'd been honest nothing would have happened and they would still have a good result... They were dumb enough to try and they failed, miserably. Nothing to do with a stitch up, Mclaren simply screwed up.

 

[teabagyokel]

Except that Hamilton and Mclaren were so stupid to keep denying it when evidence which was played to them proved them wrong. If they'd been honest nothing would have happened and they would still have a good result... They were dumb enough to try and they failed, miserably. Nothing to do with a stitch up, Mclaren simply screwed up.

Look, if everyone does it and only one entity gets punished for it, thats a stitch-up.

 

[Quintessentially]

Except that Hamilton and Mclaren were so stupid to keep denying it when evidence which was played to them proved them wrong. If they'd been honest nothing would have happened and they would still have a good result... They were dumb enough to try and they failed, miserably. Nothing to do with a stitch up, Mclaren simply screwed up.

What like Ferrari and Alonso were so stupid in denying that they employed team orders at Hokenheim 2010 despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? I think what happened at Australia was far from black and white but that's my opinion. The soundbites coming from the paddock at the time was that FIA were going to impose another absurd penalty had Mercedes not threatened to pull out of the sport. Off topic but still.

 

[teabagyokel]

What like Ferrari and Alonso were so stupid in denying that they employed team orders at Hokenheim 2010 despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

That is quite a good example, Quint!

 

[RasputinLives]

a good example of a stich-up?

I can give you examples of team orders being issued on other occasions when team orders were banned when there was no fine or punishment carried out.

 

[Josh]

What like Ferrari and Alonso were so stupid in denying that they employed team orders at Hokenheim 2010 despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? I think what happened at Australia was far from black and white but that's my opinion. The soundbites coming from the paddock at the time was that FIA were going to impose another absurd penalty had Mercedes not threatened to pull out of the sport. Off topic but still.

Yes, that was also stupid. You didn't think I wouldn't find that stupid, did you? Just because Ferrari didn't get punished (which they did, although it was a rather light punishment but that's been discussed already) doesn't mean Mclaren (or any other drivers/teams found blatantly guilty of lying) shouldn't be punished.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Yes, that was also stupid. You didn't think I wouldn't find that stupid, did you? Just because Ferrari didn't get punished (which they did, although it was a rather light punishment but that's been discussed already) doesn't mean Mclaren (or any other drivers/teams found blatantly guilty of lying) shouldn't be punished.

But if they lied about their misdemeanor surely their punishment should be the same?

 

[Josh]

But if they lied about their misdemeanor surely their punishment should be the same?

...yes. I didn't say it shouldn't...

 

[KekeTheKing]

I can give you examples of team orders being issued on other occasions when team orders were banned when there was no fine or punishment carried out.

And why weren't they penalized? Because none were as blatant and obvious as Ferrari's switcheroo at Germany 2010. If Ferrari (Felipe) had made it look even semi-inconspicuous, then there wouldn't have been such an outcry. (But I think we all know that Massa and Smedley wanted to make it look rather obvious.) And to then plead ignorance in front of the world's media directly after the event made a complete mockery of the FIA's "regulations". Everybody can deal with team orders, but to have witnessed them clear as day and then be told we didn't was an affront to fans everywhere.

Back to the main crux of this thread though. I dug out the Quali Session from Hungary 2007 and I've posted Q3 in its entirety for everyone to relive.

Ever heard the saying you've "made a mountain out of a molehill" Fernando? Well, congrats!

 

[Josh]

...He could have easily let him through. They were both very immature and disregarding team orders that day, to be fair.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Can you really equate the two?

The fuel-burn phase was essentially pointless. They were not (for all intents and purposes) qualifying at that point.

Nando threw a hissy-fit for no reason. Gesticulating and pointing at the pit wall like he actually had something to be aggrieved about. How did Lewis affect his pole run in any way? He didn't. How someone can fail to recognize this, I simply do not know.

 

[Lewywo4]

.

Something that some seem to have missed is that Hamilton was not the only driver to ignore team orders. That lollipop going up is a team order, namely "Get on the track!"

Hey Teabagyokel, you are the first person that I have read, who has brought out this important fact...

 

[Josh]

Can you really equate the two?

The fuel-burn phase was essentially pointless. They were not (for all intents and purposes) qualifying at that point.

Nando threw a hissy-fit for no reason. Gesticulating and pointing at the pit wall like he actually had something to be aggrieved about. How did Lewis affect his pole run in any way? He didn't. How someone can fail to recognize this, I simply do not know.

The fact of the matter is that Lewis ignored team orders and Fernando ignored team orders. Whether Alonso was harmed because Hamilton ignored them is irrelevant.

Should Alonso have kept calm? Yeah.
Should he just have gotten on with it instead of holding Lewis up? Hell yes.
Should Lewis have followed the orders which they agreed on before qualifying? Yes.

How someone can fail to recognize this, I simply do not know (I can be condescending too).

Apparently it's okay to ignore team orders when you're Lewis Hamilton but it's not okay to ignore them when you're Fernando Alonso!

 

[Brogan]

Gesticulating and pointing at the pit wall like he actually had something to be aggrieved about.

O/T

That's nothing new, check footage of the 2007 US GP

 

[KekeTheKing]

(I can be condescending too).

Not very well though, because now you're just repeating something.

Apparently it's okay to ignore team orders when you're Lewis Hamilton but it's not okay to ignore them when you're Fernando Alonso!

Nice straw-man there. The two "offenses" are not even close to being on the same scale.

Is it not abundantly clear to you that there was only one party affected by the other's actions.

Fernando was getting beat by his rookie teammate. He decided the only way to get the upper hand was to play dirty. Deal with it Josh.

 

[Lewywo4]

And why weren't they penalized? Because none were as blatant and obvious as Ferrari's switcheroo at Germany 2010. If Ferrari (Felipe) had made it look even semi-inconspicuous, then there wouldn't have been such an outcry. (But I think we all know that Massa and Smedley wanted to make it look rather obvious.) And to then plead ignorance in front of the world's media directly after the event made a complete mockery of the FIA's "regulations". Everybody can deal with team orders, but to have witnessed them clear as day and then be told we didn't was an affront to fans everywhere.

Back to the main crux of this thread though. I dug out the Quali Session from Hungary 2007 and I've posted Q3 in its entirety for everyone to relive.

Ever heard the saying you've "made a mountain out of a molehill" Fernando? Well, congrats!

Timed perfectly by Alonso's physical therapist......Fabrizio Borra!

 

[Lewywo4]

The fact of the matter is that Lewis ignored team orders and Fernando ignored team orders. Whether Alonso was harmed because Hamilton ignored them is irrelevant.

Should Alonso have kept calm? Yeah.
Should he just have gotten on with it instead of holding Lewis up? Hell yes.
Should Lewis have followed the orders which they agreed on before qualifying? Yes.

How someone can fail to recognize this, I simply do not know (I can be condescending too).

Apparently it's okay to ignore team orders when you're Lewis Hamilton but it's not okay to ignore them when you're Fernando Alonso!

Alonso wasn't penalized by the team, but the race stewards!

 

[Brogan]

This thread is rapidly veering away from the subject...

Whilst the Hamilton-Alonso incident was the trigger for what followed, that's not what this thread is about.