Lewywo4
Race Winner
O/T
That's nothing new, check footage of the 2007 US GP
Alonso at his, throwing things out of his pram....best!
Ron Dennis: "The truth will come out"
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
Alonso at his, throwing things out of his pram....best!
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Lewis and McLaren equally were stupid in their strategy to deal with the situation?
You do know that Lewis told the truth after the event to the press only to change his story after consultation with a member of his teams management who was subsequently sacked?
Never mind, let's stick to your version where Lewis lies heinously and is justly punished by the stewards and could have avoided it by being honest
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Re Rons statement about the truth coming out, we have had since then an insider has written a book in which he claims that Alonso went as far with his blackmail strategy to demand Lewis' car be under fuelled, to effectively scupper his chances of beating Alonso on track
There is no challenge to this allegation so far from anyone whatsoever
In time we will find out about all that really happened in 2007 behind the scenes
We might even discover what caused Lewis' gearbox glitch in the last race
There is no challenge to this allegation so far from anyone whatsoever
In time we will find out about all that really happened in 2007 behind the scenes
We might even discover what caused Lewis' gearbox glitch in the last race
Actually, having just read all posts on the first page, I don't see any insults towards drivers.
Perhaps you could point them out?
Is that enough or am I just being paranoid?
Innuendo can be just as insulting.
Obviously we don't see the same thing, so I'll say no more.
racecub
Champion Elect
Well. I still get insensed by all the unfair things that went on that year, some of them beggar belief; and because of that I have this horrible idea lurking around my brain about those last two races of that year. Lewis was leading by17 points was it? We have him left out on worn tyres when he and the tyre people are begging to come in;then we have the gear box episode that was never really explained. Well I think the deal with Mosely went further than the 10mil fine and loss of constructors. I think mclaren staying in F1 was also dependant on them not winning the drivers. But that was going a step to far to do in the open, especially when theyd gone to such trouble to ensure Alonso and Pedro got immunity, so dirt was dealt behind closed doors. I want to be wrong about this but I think it happenned. Lewis would still be the youngest F1 driver to win and would now have two titles. Fair enough if those two incidents were genuine mistakes/problems, but how cruel if that also was a set up, which is why I hope it wasnt, too hard to bare.
I hope Ron exposed Max's kinky little cellar games, scant compensation for what Max did, but satisfying non the less.
I hope Ron exposed Max's kinky little cellar games, scant compensation for what Max did, but satisfying non the less.
tranquility2k9
Podium Finisher
With regard to this thing of Alonso supposedly telling McLaren to underfuel Hamilton. If indeed that was true then I just wouldn't understand that. To me he should want to beat someone fair and square, and I don't see how he could be satisfied by beating someone in that way. I think in general this is where Lewis and Fernando seem to differ. I know Lewis has stated many times that he would not like being "gifted" a win or anything like that because of his competitive nature and as it would spoil the personal reward of beating someone fair and square. For Fernando, im sure this is also the case to some extent however there have been many occasions where either his actions or things that have happened suggest he just wants to win at all costs.
You feel he wouldn't like another really competative team mate so that everything can be revolved around him and so he doesn't have the challenge from his team mate after what happened with Lewis. Maybe this is even part of the reason why Felipe is still there and signed up for 2012, because it suits Fernando quite nicely. He knows if they have the fastest car, he will win, without a doubt. You don't see Lewis moaning about Jenson beating him or being very competative as a team mate, in-fact quite the opposite, it spurs him on and he gets a kick out of beating him, the same with Jenson too actually.
I still feel Alonso must have known something about what Renault were going to do in the race in Singapore 2008. But anyway, although this may seem like a bit of a dig at Fernando, I still think he is the best all round driver in F1 at the moment and I guess that in a way is why I think it is unnecessary for him to have the attitude he has sometimes, because he is good enough to beat any other driver fair and square and you would think he would always want to.
You feel he wouldn't like another really competative team mate so that everything can be revolved around him and so he doesn't have the challenge from his team mate after what happened with Lewis. Maybe this is even part of the reason why Felipe is still there and signed up for 2012, because it suits Fernando quite nicely. He knows if they have the fastest car, he will win, without a doubt. You don't see Lewis moaning about Jenson beating him or being very competative as a team mate, in-fact quite the opposite, it spurs him on and he gets a kick out of beating him, the same with Jenson too actually.
I still feel Alonso must have known something about what Renault were going to do in the race in Singapore 2008. But anyway, although this may seem like a bit of a dig at Fernando, I still think he is the best all round driver in F1 at the moment and I guess that in a way is why I think it is unnecessary for him to have the attitude he has sometimes, because he is good enough to beat any other driver fair and square and you would think he would always want to.
The only area I think where Dennis is in direct disagreement with Mosely as regards the truth as he see's it is about how the information relating to the De La Rosa / Alonso e-mails were reported to the FIA. Ron Dennis claimed it was he who passed the information directly to Mosely as soon as he found out about their existance via Alonso's discussion with Dennis. Mosely denied that was how he found out about them.
The facts are that Mike Coughlan was receiving information on Ferrari from Nigel Stepney.
The initial investigation prior to the e-mails showed that Mclaren did have Ferrari data and it was later proven that Renault had Mclaren data. After the initial investigation, Mclaren were found in breach of the sporting code however no further action was going to be taken as a result of a full investigation that had shown that Mclaren had not used any of that in the construction of their car or to their benefit. The same result was also found of the Renault / Mclaren investigation. (what ever we may think of how much "benefit" the engineers knowing this technical information would have been)
Ferrari then appealed that result however before the appeal could be heard the e-mail story broke.
Now this was an entirely different kettle of fish. As it proved that it wasn't just design and technical informaiton but information such as on what lap Ferrari intended to pit their cars. It was from this investigation that Mclaren lost all of their constructors points and were awarded the record fine.
In the cold light of day it's pretty clear that it wasn't about the car details but the bigger picture. The company intelectual property is almost impossible to protect from one year to the next in F1 since it's such a closed shop for employment. When designers move from team to team they can't be expected to wipe their brains of all information before hand. If that had been the case then the incredible 1969 BRM designs by Tony Rudd which pre-dated the Lotus 78 by almost 10 years would have never seen the light of day after he switched to Lotus to enable him to continue his work.
I can't except that Mclaren were aloud to remain in the championship for drivers providing they didn't win it. That simply wouldn't make sense. In theory it may be possible to stop your own driver winning by leaving him out too long on worn tyres but what would happen if as has been seen on many occassions he just went "I'm coming in", also in theory, it may be possible to computer adjust your drivers gearbox from the pits to disable it for 40 seconds but what happens if your driver then fights his way back through the field to take enough points. Don't forget, Hamilton was only one place away from becoming the world champion at the finish line. And in either scenario, what happens if the other guy fails to finish?
Hamilton, Alonso and De La Rosa were all granted immunity from sanction if they testified at the FIA investigation (which all three did). Why bother to arrange some secret no championship deal on the back of that?
I have to say, they are some of the more wild conspiracy theories I've heard.
The whole incident was highly damaging for the sport and all concerned with no one coming out of it smelling of roses. Of course any further information that would shed light on the sorry affair would be interesting such as the so called "white powder" story with Stepney in Monaco, but I don't think any of the main players are going to go on record for some time to come.
The facts are that Mike Coughlan was receiving information on Ferrari from Nigel Stepney.
The initial investigation prior to the e-mails showed that Mclaren did have Ferrari data and it was later proven that Renault had Mclaren data. After the initial investigation, Mclaren were found in breach of the sporting code however no further action was going to be taken as a result of a full investigation that had shown that Mclaren had not used any of that in the construction of their car or to their benefit. The same result was also found of the Renault / Mclaren investigation. (what ever we may think of how much "benefit" the engineers knowing this technical information would have been)
Ferrari then appealed that result however before the appeal could be heard the e-mail story broke.
Now this was an entirely different kettle of fish. As it proved that it wasn't just design and technical informaiton but information such as on what lap Ferrari intended to pit their cars. It was from this investigation that Mclaren lost all of their constructors points and were awarded the record fine.
In the cold light of day it's pretty clear that it wasn't about the car details but the bigger picture. The company intelectual property is almost impossible to protect from one year to the next in F1 since it's such a closed shop for employment. When designers move from team to team they can't be expected to wipe their brains of all information before hand. If that had been the case then the incredible 1969 BRM designs by Tony Rudd which pre-dated the Lotus 78 by almost 10 years would have never seen the light of day after he switched to Lotus to enable him to continue his work.
I can't except that Mclaren were aloud to remain in the championship for drivers providing they didn't win it. That simply wouldn't make sense. In theory it may be possible to stop your own driver winning by leaving him out too long on worn tyres but what would happen if as has been seen on many occassions he just went "I'm coming in", also in theory, it may be possible to computer adjust your drivers gearbox from the pits to disable it for 40 seconds but what happens if your driver then fights his way back through the field to take enough points. Don't forget, Hamilton was only one place away from becoming the world champion at the finish line. And in either scenario, what happens if the other guy fails to finish?
Hamilton, Alonso and De La Rosa were all granted immunity from sanction if they testified at the FIA investigation (which all three did). Why bother to arrange some secret no championship deal on the back of that?
I have to say, they are some of the more wild conspiracy theories I've heard.
The whole incident was highly damaging for the sport and all concerned with no one coming out of it smelling of roses. Of course any further information that would shed light on the sorry affair would be interesting such as the so called "white powder" story with Stepney in Monaco, but I don't think any of the main players are going to go on record for some time to come.
Ron's account of events when Alonso allegedly threatened that he had incriminating information is easy to dissect. He was either completely ignorant of the said emails thus downplaying the situation when he phoned Max - a genuine error, or he had prior knowledge about their existence and only phoned Max to manage the situation hoping that Alonso would back down. Bearing in mind this all happened in the aftermath of the first hearing when FIA had already declared McLaren guilty of illegally possessing Ferrari documents but declined to issue a penalty, I doubt Ron would've taken any risks at that point, especially considering the relationship with Alonso was almost at the point of no return. I don't think he was that naive enough to think that Max would take his word for it without digging further. I'm sure both parties cleared the air in the end and it was probably a simple misunderstanding, who knows. Maybe someone would like to have a stab at what a telephone convo between Max and Ron would sound like.
You mean given immunity if they 'made information available to the FIA'? Only Hamilton testified at the hearing.
You mean given immunity if they 'made information available to the FIA'? Only Hamilton testified at the hearing.
intersting conjecture and you could be correct but as with the rest of it I think it all depends on who you want to be guilty as none of us actually know the people involved
also submitting a written statement to court is classed as testifying. Its often done when a witness either can't make the hearing or does not one to be present in front of the people who are on trial.
also submitting a written statement to court is classed as testifying. Its often done when a witness either can't make the hearing or does not one to be present in front of the people who are on trial.
It is not illegal to pay for sex. It is, however, illegal to solicit for someone to pay you for sex.
Vortex
Race Winner
You seem well informed.
lol
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
OuchYou seem well informed.
I'm sad to say that I'm extremely ill-informed on the topic.
Thanks for bringing that up...
Thanks for bringing that up...
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