Ron Dennis: "The truth will come out"

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Ron Dennis was quoted as saying this a few years ago, in response to the spying scandal (source).

However, it has been a good few years now and nothing has changed with regards to what was known then versus now.

So was this just bluster from Ron?
Or is there in fact more still to come but it has been stifled?

I'm very surprised he hasn't published his autobiography; that's where I expected to read about any new details, if there were any.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I've read various things from various people to suggest that there is a lot that isn't publicly known about what happened.

Whether any of the full story will actually be told depends on the lawyers to a large extent, I suppose.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Well, he's seeing the success of the Senna movie and biding his time. One day his name will be in lights too...

DENNIS
He constructed his racing concern.
But the full requirements of demolishing it was one Iberian biomaton.
Now VERSIMILITUDE!

 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
I can't see what information that can come out that can change the situation. Mclaren had and used details from the Ferrari design. The who, the what, the when and the how are never going to change that - Unless of course Ron is suggesting some kind of Ferrari double agent planted the plans their and he thought he was just reading the menu for the local Italian.
 

Bill Boddy

Professional layabout
Contributor
Well, he's seeing the success of the Senna movie and biding his time. One day his name will be in lights too...

DENNIS
He constructed his racing concern.
But the full requirements of demolishing it was one Iberian biomaton.
Now VERSIMILITUDE!
So the marketing of this tome will feature inaccuracy then.
 

Road of Bones

MTC Mole
Contributor
Not inaccuracy per se - but possibly some mendacious inexactitude instead! There is also the potential for veracity confirmation protocols to be circumvented in the spirit of unit-sales up-scaling.

However, Ron Dennis is said to be "Mildly Infuriated" that such claims are being levelled...

:snigger:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Again its like the Senna movie. It had to have a villian, and his name was Alain. The villian of any movie told from the point of view of Ron Dennis vis-á-vis the 2007 affair up to his eventual displacement in 2009 has to be Fernando, with Max Moseley as (of course) Balestre!
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
From watching the extended version of 'Senna' I didn't get the impression that Prost was painted in a particularly villainous light. He was just as ruthless in his way as many other racing drivers are in their own way today. It struck me that decisions often went in his favour, whether he felt the need to try and influence them or not. In fact, we now know that some of the decisions in that era were absolutely scandalous, bare faced cheating. By far the biggest bogey man of all was Balestre.

Relating to the thread though, I think it will be some time until the real truth comes out, no matter which way that 'truth' sways. Given that it took me some 17-18 years to understand and change my strongly held views on how it was back then, I don't hold out much hope in finding the facts about 'now' for some time yet!!
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
I can't see what information that can come out that can change the situation. Mclaren had and used details from the Ferrari design.
Can we put something to rest here. It might be okay to keep trotting out the myths on other less reputable forums, but not here.

McLaren's 2007 challenger had already been designed, tested and was about to be, or being, raced when the 2006 Ferrari designs were being passed to Coughlan. The FIA inspected the design and build of the 2008 car and placed an FIA rep' in McLaren's garage for the entire 2008 season. This was part of the penalty McLaren incurred due to being found guilty by the FIA and World Sports Council of the charges brought against them'

No Ferrari intellectual property either in McLaren's designs or on their cars was ever found and we know that the FIA tried very hard indeed to find some. Had it been found the FIA would have implemented the suspended ban on McLaren's participation in the 2008 championship and Lewis Hamilton would not have been a World Champion.

The fact that the information was already out of date and practically useless seems to have escaped the attention of many but you can be sure the entire F1 paddock were fully aware of that at the time. This fact also partly explains why Renault, guilty of the same offence against McLaren got off with not much more than a quiet word in the corner. The whole thing was a political stitch up to clip McLaren's wings and it's no coincidence that Max Mosley fell from grace not long thereafter. Like any business Formula One cannot afford personal political agendas dominating its affairs for very long.

This, I suspect will be the meat of the story that we are waiting for. Our wait may be some time as you can put money on it that Max will use the courts to challenge anything RD puts down on paper. As always, timing is everything.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
Can we put something to rest here. It might be okay to keep trotting out the myths on other less reputable forums, but not here..
*ducks for cover*

Sorry dude didn't mean to touch a raw nerve. If I'm honest I don't know half as much as you by sounds of things but I didn't mean to offend in anyway. All I meant was Mclaren had - they were passed the designs - and used - there were messages between drivers talking about the designs compared to their own. As for the in's and out's about what was used and what wasn't I have any idea or would even claim to even be able to recgonise about whether any of the information was used.

I'm quite prepared to believe Max Mosley would hold a personel grudge though and I do realise there probably a lot of that involved.

At the end of the day I ignore the bullshit and just see the fact that someone elses designs were passed unknowingly to a rival and was wrong. The use of the designs was not really the issue just the fact it was done in the first place. If you own an illegal fire arm its an offence. You wouldn't be let off just because you haven't fired it.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
If McLaren didn't use the Ferrari data why did they make a pledge to not develop their brakes for a certain period? Or am I imagining they said that...
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
*ducks for cover*

Sorry dude didn't mean to touch a raw nerve. If I'm honest I don't know half as much as you by sounds of things but I didn't mean to offend in anyway.
No offence taken, Ras. I just wanted to nail the myth. Not that it is possible to nail such a myth as it is merrily perpetuated on countless threads elsewhere. I think the fact that the actual perpetrators of the crime got off relatively lightly compared to the McLaren the organisation (i.e. the $100m fine and damage to its heritage and credibility) to me speaks volumes. It's the spies who are usually shot ;), heh, heh.

If McLaren didn't use the Ferrari data why did they make a pledge to not develop their brakes for a certain period? Or am I imagining they said that...
Unless I am very much mistaken that is part of the myth. As I alluded to in my earlier post they could not have used any intellectual property in 2007 or 2008. because a) the 2007 car was already off the blocks before the spying incident took place, and FIA scrutiny began with their investigation, b) the 2008 car design, build and running was under the closest FIA scrutiny ever for the entire season and c) any info' was already out of date in 2007 let alone for 2008 or thereafter.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Perhpas they didn't use the data on the car but at least some of the Ferrari data would be up to performance standards of the time. I bet that every team on the grid (including the 3 newer ones) will have at least once piece of their car that is the class of the field, and with Ferrari it's likely that they would have a significant amount of the 'best' pieces.

As for the emails I know it was Alonso and de la Rosa but weren't they also corresponding with Nigel Stepney, specifically comparing the Ferrari's flexible diffuser (used at Australia 2007) to their own and laps on which the Ferrari drivers would stop.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Apparantly Stepney released a statement in 2007 saying it wasn't just McLaren who recieved data on Ferrari's car but that Ferrari also recieved data on McLaren's car.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7027318.stm
I was quite confused when I read this in that article:

Stepney said Coughlan took the documents at a meeting they had in Barcelona in April, but added: "He told me: 'Don't worry, I won't use any of this stuff.'
Why would he take the documents and not have a look? He's not going to leave the documents lying around unread.

As for the Ferrari information being "out of date", I am sure I read that they had Massa and Raikkonen's set ups and strategies for the races, and that what was discussed between De La Rosa and Alonso.

I could be wrong though, I didn't follow the spy-gate that much, or look at F1 websites back then. I just enjoyed every F1 session that came on tv, and my knowledge from the spy-gate is what was confirmed on the ITV F1 coverage, a little from forums, also an argumentative essay that my girlfriend wrote for her coursework where she argued both sides and claimed McLaren where guilty even though she is a McLaren fan LOL
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Flexible diffuser is a new one on me but 2007 saw Ferrari being looked at by the FIA because of their suspected flexible floor:

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2007/0/396.html

With regard to the emails, and drivers sharing info' etc that was a sidewhow compared to the "stolen intellectual property" which related to the design material being photocopied in the copy shop (and how stupid was that?).

Here's the email stuff. Make of it what you will.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/09/14/alonso-de-la-rosas-emails-led-to-mclarens-punishment/
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
What a bunch of idiots... From sending friendly emails which could be read by anyone to sending your wife to a copy shop. Did they honestly expect to get away with it. Next time they should watch CSI first...
 
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