Red Bull and Ferrari front wings

[Enja]

If the endplates aren't supposed to flex, how do they explain this?

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... _009ii.jpg

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... 50ii_0.jpg

These two are obviously dipping at the endplates, to my eyes at least, especially when you compare it with McLaren :

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... _008ii.jpg

 

[snowy]

Thanks to EL_XR6 over at F1Technical.net for reminding us about this little test RBR conducted:

Do you people remember when Red Bull tested this back in December?
Clearly they're testing something here in regards to the front wing flexing.

Notice how the front cable is tort and the back slack when the car is stationary and both are tort when being driven...

 

[Brogan]

Excellent snowy
That clears up another pre-season testing issue that everyone was wondering about.

You can definitely see the difference between the tautness of the cables under rest and load.

 

[snowy]

so that's how you spell taut I knew it wasn't how I smelt it!

 

[cider_and_toast]

Well slap my thigh and call me William.

I can't remember what we thought they were when they appeared months ago and bingo we have our answer.

Part of another hole in the rules that the proverbial coach and horses have been driven through.

 

[RickD]

If the endplates aren't supposed to flex, how do they explain this?

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... _009ii.jpg

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... 50ii_0.jpg

These two are obviously dipping at the endplates, to my eyes at least, especially when you compare it with McLaren :

http://www.darrenheath.com/sites/defaul ... _008ii.jpg

I'd say it was really hard to tell from those pictures due to perspective. They actually look the same height if you take that into account.

 

[Muddytalker]

So, if I've got this right, the rule basically says:-

Hold your arms out to each side, and hold a bag of sugar in each hand. Measuring from the wrist, your hand shouldn't bend down more than a few degrees. OK? Check. However, we won't measure any degree of bend if you happen to lower your hands by lowering your arm from the shoulder or elbow...

That's some good loopholing, right there.

 

[snowy]

That be the "loopy hole" then.

 

[MajorDanby]

A massive loophole. Its like the degree of flex allowed in a bowlers arm in cricket. i.e. completely measurable

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Am I being thick or something? How would any kind of flexing wing, regardless of which point along its length it flexed from, get round this rule?

3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 800mm
forward of the front wheel centre line and 795mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams
must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

 

[snowy]

Am I being thick or something? How would any kind of flexing wing, regardless of which point along its length it flexed from, get round this rule?

3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 800mm
forward of the front wheel centre line and 795mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams
must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

Perhaps when the test is carried out the 500N load pushes straight down and the wing doesn't deflect but when acted upon by real downforces on track the wing twists and it is this twisting that allows the wing to deflect.

 

[snowy]

This is one theory: Top post by Delsandro at F1technical

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8764&start=75

 

[snowy]

McLaren are completely flummoxed by the Flexi wing:

McLaren's Paddy Lowe is struggling to understand let alone emulate it.

"I've seen a lot of pictures on that situation," he said. "We believe, and we're not alone, that two cars - Ferrari and Red Bull - have wings existing at a much lower position than we're able to deliver.

"It is a phenomenon we're seeing. It may be entirely legitimate, it may not be. We don't understand it."

"It is a difference to a reasonably large degree," says Lowe, "so it's difficult to explain by relatively subtle effects like fuel weight, tyre pressure, or high-speed set-up. These things affect a car to a relatively small degree - much smaller than the degree we've seen in pictures.

"At the minute we are working really hard to understand it, and if it is worth performance to us, to deliver that."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85618

 

[RickD]

Yeah, heres the interview on F1.com

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 11086.html

It's interesting that they are still having trouble understanding the system, let alone any gains they may see.. Hopefully the lightbulb will come on soon..

 

[Brogan]

Here's a better image showing how the Red Bull front wing flexes under load (due to speed).

 

[Gumshoe]

Here's a better image showing how the Red Bull front wing flexes under load (due to speed).

This is a similar image that shows the difference when stationary. I believe the deflection is even more dramatic in this instance.

If we concentrate our attention on the right hand wing tip (from our point of view) there is absolutely no doubt that it has deflected more than 10mm.

 

[Brogan]

A much better image, thanks Gumshoe
I'm astounded that this wing has passed scrutineering and is legal.

Welcome to the site BTW.

 

[Gumshoe]

A much better image, thanks Gumshoe
I'm astounded that this wing has passed scrutineering and is legal.

Welcome to the site BTW.

Thanks. I promise to introduce myself properly soon

I'm just looking at that image again, and perhaps this is just my imagination, but it looks like the entire wing tip has deformed. In particular, the horizontal cross piece clearly visible in the stationary image, has almost bent out of view in the high-speed image.

Perhaps it's just a trick of the light but it seems very dramatic to me and as you say it is astounding that it's passed scrutineering.

 

[snowy]

Hello Gumshoe
That's a great example of the flexi wing.
I would hazard a guess that what we are seeing it the wing flexing downward and simultaneously twisting away from or toward us.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Has Paddy Lowe seen this? It might help him to understand.

I wonder how quickly Mclaren could knock one (or two) of these up? Or have they got some already in the pipeline?