Qualifying - How would you run it?

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
There have been several occasions this year where a car has opted not to run in Q3 because the team / driver feels that he has peeked in performance and dosn't want to risk the car on a needless couple of laps when 10th was the best that could be hoped for anyway. This culminated recently in 3 cars sitting the session out for the same reason. At the time there were suggestions that the FIA should make it mandatory for cars to run at least one flying lap in the session. Should this be the case or do you feel that cars should be allowed to opt out of the final session if they wish?

Widening the topic further, in the last 10 years we've seen several changes made to the rules regarding qualification from the standard all go for it at once regs of old, through the single lap in championship order to the current it's a knockout style. Which do you prefer and is there any need for change?

In my opinion, I really like the it's a knockout style of three periods of qually. It has succeeded in throwing up some unsual results around the bottom end of each run and it works as a full hour of entertainment which is the very reason why Bernie demanded changes in the first place because sponsors and viewers were being treated to 55 minutes of Minardi followed by 5 minutes of madness. The only thing I personally think is wrong with the system is that there seems to be very little need for the top 6 or so cars to go out at all in Q1 because unless of some major weather change or car issue they nearly always get through and on the prime tyre as well, while the smaller teams almost always have to guarentee their safety by using up a set of options.

So what I would do is run every car on the same tyre type in Q1 to sort out 1 to 24. Then cars 12 to 24 would go out in Q2 to sort out their running order and then the cars in 1 to 12 would go out in Q3 to sort out their running order. In Q2 and Q3, either of the two tyre types would be allowed. I would drop the rule that cars in Q3 must start on their qually tyres as this has been made totally pointless by the new tyre regulations. What this would mean is that each team has used up more or less the same sets of tyres and there would be no reason to sit your car out of a qualification session because the battle for higher grids spots between say 12 and 6 is a lot more open than between 10 and 6.

What's everyone else think?
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I'm always going to say they should have made the one shot qualifying system work because it rewards excellence more, but thats an unpopular view.

But I do think your system works better. And so I'll have a little refine...

Q1 Starts at 14:00.
All teams and cars must be on their one set of Pirelli Qualification Tyres. The session lasts for 15 minutes. Unlimited runs allowed, but one set of tyres. The bottom 12 go into Q2A and the top 12 to Q2B.

Q2A Starts at 14:20
The session lasts for 15 minutes, and any tyre can be used, with the bottom 12 grid positions decided.​
Q2B Starts at 14:40
And runs to the same format, but only with grid positions 4-12 decided. The top three go to Q3.​

Q3 Starts at 15:00
The third car from Q2B heads out first and sets a time. The second car then sets his single lap, followed by the Q2B winner. Thus we always finish with a legitimate pole position shootout! All three will use their Pirelli Qualification Tyres, because it cannot have been a problem getting out of Q1!?


 

Andyoak

Race Winner
Both versions seem good solutions but I'm for going back to qualifying tyres only: no race tyres for Saturday.
I haven't really thought this though but I like the idea of a bit more tyre randomness in the race that may happen through lack of race tyre time over the two days before.
 

tooncheese

Hans Heyer
Contributor
One further thing for your method TBY, I think the limited tyre sets is unfair. One set for P3, then a new set is delivered for each qualifying session reached. You can start on whatever tyre you wan't, and no more two compound rule. With your method, quali tyres give say two seconds, and a driver must use his in Q1. In Q3 after a great lap only two cars leave the pits, as there is no point in the third leaving. If they get new tyres for each session, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain.
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
I would keep the current format, but have 2 sets of quali tyres for the 3 sessions. That way the new teams can cause a shock in Q1 by having quali tyres while the others on race tyres, and this should means that more cars go out in q3.

Obviously, if it's wet, then no qualy tyres will be used.

(As a bit of advertising, I would urge you to submit your greatest and worst ever circuit nominations before I narrow down the options tomorrow)
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Qualifying tyres, then whoever qualifies 18th doesn't have a massive advantage.

If these tyres where in place last year I doubt Liuzzi would be fired...
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
With your method, quali tyres give say two seconds, and a driver must use his in Q1. In Q3 after a great lap only two cars leave the pits, as there is no point in the third leaving. If they get new tyres for each session, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Possibly a good point, I was just thinking green! (Btw, I was deleting Q2B times for Q3!)
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Why havn't the drivers that make it into Q2 worked out yet that they shouldn't use their tyres at all. Then they would have the same advantage as 18th only with a better grid slot. Yet the Williams' still go out to try and claim around 15th to no avail.
 

Vortex

Race Winner
Id go back to the 1 hour 12 laps max free for all qualifying, but you get moments of no action I hear you cry, I don’t care I reply, I enjoyed it, it built tension.

Of all the various formats we have had the past few years (what a farce) the current one is the better of the bunch, the 1 car at a time format I hated, its was just sooooooooooooooooo dull.:sleeping: The current one could do with tweaks, the Q3 is the best session, reminds me of the 12 lap max format but the 10 minutes is just not long enough. 20 would be much better, even an hour!! Then were back to the format I like haha.
 

Tacitus

Podium Finisher
How would I run it?
I would add in the small print that randomly at any race the qualifying order can be completly reversed post qualifying
just to shake up the field.
Then sit back and enjoy the mayhem in the first laps as the slow cars hold up the faster cars.
absolute carnage like the monaco restart.
just for the lolz.
 

Hamberg

FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :)
Contributor
I was fine with the 12 laps in one hour personally. I had no problems whatsoever with it.

However I also don't mind the current qualifying apart from the silly tyre rules. Every driver should have the luxury regardless of grid position to start on a new set.
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
Current system but with Qual tyres, one set for each session. If you don't get past Q1 you have two sets of Qual tyres for balls out short race stints, one set if you don't get past Q2.
I'd consider paying Murdoch some money for that.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
The problem with the 12 laps in an hour is no-one ran for the first half an hour which wasn't a great spectacle. I think the current system is fine, but I would get rid of the tyre rules and that the teams have more tyres to use in quali.
 

Andyoak

Race Winner
Seems the majority is generally in favour of the current format but we don't like the opting out of running.
I suppose the obvious solution of a rule change stating that all cars in each Q round must do at least 1 flying lap isn't an option.
Still want qualifying tyres though and a free choice for race-day.
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
I would keep the current system, but award 2 world championship points for the fastest driver / constructor in each session.

On tyre allocation for qualifying, I would give each driver one set of options and one set of primes (or 1 x Qually and 1 x option) for Q1 & Q2, plus two new sets of options for Q3. All qualifying tyres would be returned at the end of qualifying and each driver would have 2 x new option and 2 x new prime for the race.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I like both of the suggested tweaks, though I don't know whether things are starting to get a bit convoluted for the casual fan? Probably a bit late to complain about that now, with KERS harvesting, DRS activation zones and so on.

Personally my preference is also for the single-lap shootout. Yes, it was boring at times, but it had the potential to give us more interesting grids (and therefore races) than the current format - and it was fairer to all parties. It didn't help the system that Ferrari dominated through the period of its use and robbed the spectacle completely.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I like both of the suggested tweaks, though I don't know whether things are starting to get a bit convoluted for the casual fan? Probably a bit late to complain about that now, with KERS harvesting, DRS activation zones and so on.

Personally my preference is also for the single-lap shootout. Yes, it was boring at times, but it had the potential to give us more interesting grids (and therefore races) than the current format - and it was fairer to all parties. It didn't help the system that Ferrari dominated through the period of its use and robbed the spectacle completely.

I guess it would work better with ultra sticky, likely to fall of a cliff at any minute, qually rubber. That way the drivers really would be on the edge.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I guess it would work better with ultra sticky, likely to fall of a cliff at any minute, qually rubber. That way the drivers really would be on the edge.

Maybe. One of the interesting technical things over recent years has been the trade-off for the teams between bringing tyres rapidly up to temperature for qualifying laps, but not overheating them over a race stint. With qually tyres I worry that the teams design-wise would all be going in the same direction - trying to get the best durability for the race - and thereby converge.

I could be wrong though.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Sadly, with the amount of technology available to analyse data, convergence happens far more rapidly these days so I guess what ever solution is used with regards to things like tyre technology I would guess that it takes the top teams no more than 3/4 of a season before any advantage is normally nullified.
 
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