Nicki Lauda - Chump of the Weekend.

[cider_and_toast]

who gives a damn about what autosport said?thats just a man voicing his opinion.so dont take it as fact.
and the spa punishment was disgraceful.

Easy there,

I was just pointing out that a British based publication (and you would like to assume that they would approach the task in a non biased way) reviewed the penalties that Hamilton had received and gave their opinion. I tend to respect the views of proffesional motorsport journalists in a decades old motoring publication even if I don't always agree with what they print. I do agree with you that the Spa penalty was unfair and also pointed out that, that was the conlcustion of Autosport as well.

Its another reason why so much is written about Hamilton because his name provokes a great deal of emotion among fans from either his supporters or his detractors. Having said that though, had the World Wide Web been in existence at the height of the Prost / Senna era I believe we would be seeing much the same thing.

Lets not overlook in all our excitement that yesterdays race was an absolute classic (once it got going) and we've not had many of those for a long time.

 

[VanChallis]

On occasion Lewis is too impulsive. He is a great driver but sometimes his own worst enemy. He almost expects others to make way for him - in fact something he shares with Fernando in my view.

I agree to a point, but the same could be said for Senna and Villeneuve, and they are regarded as a couple of the greatest drivers in history. Sometimes Lewis' approach works for him, sometimes it doesn't. It's unfortunate that he's had a couple of bad ones in the last 2 races, a combination of bad luck and a slightly off judgements. I still think he's the best `racer` on the grid, and eventually he will calm down slightly and lower the amount of incidents he's involved in, but he'll never change the style that has made him (in)famous

 

[Brogan]

As far as his penalties go, Autosport recently reviewed all the penalties he has so far received in F1 and out of them all they only found one that he shouldn't have had which of course was the infamous Spa incident and they judged one harsh which I believe was a move on Massa.

I'm not arguing whether any of the penalties he has been awarded were justified or not, I'm questioning whether other drivers would have received them.

Who can honestly say with 100% certainty that if it was Hamilton who had taken out Button and Alonso yesterday, he wouldn't be looking at another penalty?
I can't.
And that's the problem.

The Spa incident and retrospective rule change was a first and a particular low point for F1.

He was also penalised for a first corner incident at Japan (even though it was actually Heikki who hit Kimi), yet how many times have we seen drivers coming together at the first corner and retiring other cars, and escaping without penalty?

As for him being groomed and waltzing straight into a top car, the fact that he came within 1 point of being the first rookie WDC fully justifies that decision.
It mystifies me why that would make him a legitimate hate target.

Still, there's nowt as strange as folk, as the saying goes.

 

[cider_and_toast]

The thing is you are right that you can't say for certain if it was Hamilton who had, as Alonso put it himself, a coming together with Alonso there would have been a penalty because we'll never know but what we do know for sure is that both incidents (Webber/Hamilton and Button/Alonso) were investigated by the stewards. I don't think you can ask for any more than that.

The reason that we can't say whether other drivers would have received them or not, if it wasn't Hamilton, is because most other drivers aren't driving into their fellow competitors while overtaking. Those that have done have gone before the stewards and where they deemed it, received a penalty.

I agree about Spa. I'll never understand that one and don't think I ever will.

As for your last point. Yeah, I don't quite get it either but (and this is also a very British thing) lots of people hate winners. There is and again I hate to say this because it only applies to a small section of F1's fan base, a whiff of racism as well. As I posted earlier, I agree that Mclaren recognised Hamiltons talent, developped it and have reeped the rewards ever since. This is no different to the way a football club finds young talent and grows it through the club ranks until they become star players. Some of the comments that Hamilton gets are no different to those people who have a pop at David Beckham for example.

The fact remains that seperating off track with on, On the circuit Hamilton is an fantastic racing driver who is trying too hard in a car that can't quite do what he needs it to do. The mistakes that Di Resta made in Canada were no worse than those that Hamilton made in Monaco but we don't really worry about Di Resta because he stands a snowballs chance in hell of winning the title. Hamilton on the other hand is firmly under the microscope of F1 analysis for everymove he makes.

On the whole, I can't except that he is a special case in stewards eyes. (with for whatever reason the exception of Spa)

 

[teabagyokel]

As for him being groomed and waltzing straight into a top car, the fact that he came within 1 point of being the first rookie WDC fully justifies that decision.

Between the three top drivers, Hamilton is the only one of the three who did not waltz straight into a top car, and is the one of the three who was least groomed.

Hamilton was 22 when he came into F1, he did all the junior formulae. The same cannot be said for Alonso and Vettel. Nor Raikkonen and Button.

Hamilton went straight to McLaren. Anyone here believe that Alonso was going anywhere but Renault in 2001? Was Vettel's Red Bull/BMW funding incidental?

F1 does not exist in a vacuum and thus this is a ridiculous, embarrassing and incorrect decision.

As for Niki Lauda, he's talking crap, and I think we can leave it at that.

Here's all of Lewis' F1 retirements by the way:

• Canada 2011 - attempting to overtake Jenson Button collided with him
• Singapore 2010 - taken out by Mark Webber having taken the corner
• Italy 2010 - collided with Felipe Massa and damaged steering arm
• Hungary 2010 - transmission failure
• Spain 2010 - wheel rim failure
• Abu Dhabi 2009 - brake failure
• Belgium 2009 - ploughed into by Romain Grosjean
• Canada 2008 - ploughed into Kimi Raikkonen at pit exit
• China 2007 - beached in pit lane gravel trap

None of those were dangerous, and its not bad for someone both reckless and a car breaker. Apparently.

 

[Speshal]

@ TBY

Puts it into perspective really, in 4 and a bit seasons - 5 DNFs due to hitting someone else

 

[cider_and_toast]

The trouble is, perception is everything. How anyone from fellow teams, the press, supporters etc perceive someone can make or break them.

I used to think that Robbie Savage was a total however since he started appearing on Radio 5's 606 I've really enjoyed listening to his refreshing views on football and the way he challenges callers to back up their opinions.

Hamilton never spent a year in a Minardi or a year in a Sauber ergo he waltzed in to a front end team. It's all a matter of perception.

I agree with you about Lauda.

 

[teabagyokel]

The trouble is, perception is everything. How anyone from fellow teams, the press, supporters etc perceive someone can make or break them.

Aye, absolutely. I do like to challenge perception where I can though.

I believe that Lewis lost his McLaren funding at one point and got it back after winning a race in Bahrain, is that right?

It always makes me laugh when Alonsoistas criticise the Ron Dennis/Lewis Hamilton relationship. What about Alonso and Briatore?

 

[cider_and_toast]

There's none so blind as those that will not see.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Since Hamilton entered F1 he has been treated differently to most of the other drivers, from all sections of the F1 circus...
...The question is why.

Is it coz he's...

 

[teabagyokel]

Is it coz he's...

... fast?

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Hamilton never spent a year in a Minardi or a year in a Sauber ergo he waltzed in to a front end team. It's all a matter of perception.

I'm sceptical as to whether there is anything to be gained from trundling around at the back of the F1 grid thesedays (or ever in fact), 4 secs per lap off the pace, as opposed to competing (and winning) in all the junior formulae. I'd argue being a front runner in F.Renault, F3 Euro and GP2 is more character building and would teach a driver far more, particularly in terms of racecraft whilst giving teams the opportunity to see what they could do. teams want winners, not someone who can just do a job. Hamilton was told in no uncertain terms by Ron Dennis : compete and show me you can win in the lower series, only then will you get your chance in F1. There was no 'waltzing into a front end team' involved.
Sadly, I think with the return of the dreaded 'pay driver' (could you imagine 10 years ago Williams running a pay driver?) the only chance for the top young drivers is to get in with one of the big boys and be a bit ruthless a la Schumacher and more recently Alonso. It's time for Hamilton to put his head down and channel any feelings of being got at, into trying to galvanise the team around him the same way Alonso obviously did at Ferrari last season.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I was going to say ...too good for his own good?

 

[cider_and_toast]

I remember seeing somewhere, an intereview with Frank Williams just after Senna had tested for the team at the end of 1983? and Frank saying something along the lines of "oh there's no doubt he was quick in the test but he won't be driving for Williams next season as we don't employ young drivers but prefer experience" . The thought of Williams sigining a pay driver came into my head at the start of this season as a result of that.

I've often wondered about the number of drivers who would have competed at the very sharp end had they not lost their way in a back of the grid team because that was the only drive available at the time.

Back on the subject of Lauda though, Another telling reason why Hamilton is regarded in the way he is can be found on the back page of every newspaper in the UK today. Just take one look at them all and they all have headlines such as "you will kill someone Lewis" etc etc. None of them say "Stunning victory for Button" or words to that effect. 99 percent of these articles are written alongside a picture of Hamilton and Button side by side against the wall that gives the wrong impression as well. It makes good copy and gets the reader drawn into the story. With that as a back page headline, where do you go first? You don't jump from the continued on page 4 to the race report you just keep on reading the negative story aspects.

Just what exactly Lauda was banging on about remains something of a mystery to me?

 

[Slyboogy]

I am getting really annoyed with this "if it was Hamilton he would have got a penalty", Hamilton is not the only one who gets criticised and penalties, there is also this one man Schumacher who seems to be getting criticised a lot unfairly, in Turkey he got up with an incident with Petrov, Petrov was never going to make the corner with that speed, Schumacher pulled out at the right but then turned in a bit late, there have also been many incidents like this but Schumacher gets the blame, gets labelled as "dirty" driver, when Hamilton has done these type of moves aswell yet he's "innocent".

Schumacher fans can easily say the same thing as what you guys do about Hamilton, yet as a Schumacher fan, I see his mistakes and his penalties they may be harsh as is the criticism, but I for one don't go round saying "if that was a different driver he wouldn't have got penalised, it's because it's Schumacher"

Hamilton puts himself into these incidents, certianly these past two races, he may have got criticised unfairly, but I stand by that he should have got his penalty for Massa, and against Maldonado, he should learn who is opponent is, you can't just dive down the inside of a rookie doing a do or die move.

What's even worse is his comments after races, sometimes he says something sensible, sometimes he doesn't, I for one don't recall Schumacher saying it's ridiculous, am always targeted blah blah blah.

As for Lauda, has he ever made a sensible comment the last few years? Think he is a bad example to use...

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

I've often wondered about the number of drivers who would have competed at the very sharp end had they not lost their way in a back of the grid team because that was the only drive available at the time.

Back on the subject of Lauda though, Another telling reason why Hamilton is regarded in the way he is can be found on the back page of every newspaper in the UK today. Just take one look at them all and they all have headlines such as "you will kill someone Lewis" etc etc. None of them say "Stunning victory for Button" or words to that effect. 99 percent of these articles are written alongside a picture of Hamilton and Button side by side against the wall that gives the wrong impression as well. It makes good copy and gets the reader drawn into the story. With that as a back page headline, where do you go first? You don't jump from the continued on page 4 to the race report you just keep on reading the negative story aspects.

Just what exactly Lauda was banging on about remains something of a mystery to me?

Totally agree on the first point, and I would also add that the opposite is true: too many journeymen like "Quick" (eh? quicker than what?) Nick Heidfeld and perhaps the most (in)famous, Ralph Shumacher, who in my opinion bring/brought nothing to the table, keeping out people like Davidson, Grosjean and Ricciardo who clearly have more talent. Sadly, money talks.
As for the Tabloids, they have always had and will always have their own agenda. usually, when it comes to British sportsmen/women, that involves building them up in order to knock them back down again. Sensationalist nonsense will always shift copies and that is all they are interested in. I would be surprised if race stewards read The Sun, and if people want to base their opinions on what the papers say then 'more fool them' I say.
In terms of Lauda, Button has aplogised for the coming together, Webber says his was a racing incident, and the Schumacher thing was, if anything, Schumi being a bit naughty as he was last year with Massa. So it seems Lauda is getting upset on behalf of people who have already said they aren't upset? That's just plain bewildering to be honest.

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

there have also been many incidents like this but Schumacher gets the blame, gets labelled as "dirty" driver, when Hamilton has done these type of moves aswell yet he's "innocent".

When has Hamilton ever deliberately tried to ram other drivers off the track? Or into the pit wall? As has already been pointed out a few posts back, retiring 3 times in 4.5yrs due to hitting someone else is hardly the same as anything Schumacher ever did.

 

[Mezzer]

IMO this was a 45/55, so 'blame' is hard to point out. Perhaps we should just note that Button has apologised and take it from there. There have certainly been far more questionable 'racing incidents'.

 

[Slyboogy]

When has Hamilton ever deliberately tried to ram other drivers off the track? Or into the pit wall? As has already been pointed out a few posts back, retiring 3 times in 4.5yrs due to hitting someone else is hardly the same as anything Schumacher ever did.

I am talking about normal incidents...I know Schumacher was no saint.

 

[Speshal]

If you could keep this thread towards what Niki Lauda said instead of a "he did this, he did that" that would be appreciated.