Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[The Artist.....]

... Now that's just cheating!

 

[Hamberg]

 

[F1ang-o]

Hamberg
I don't want to repeat my self anymore....I will bookmark posts & links....note to self.

McLaren lied to try to get Lewis a position back, that is if you are talking about the Trulli debacle.... ..I often woder why Toyota didn't know the rules either..you would think that with all the millions that go into F1, somebody in these teams would have confirmed to LH that he didn't have to follow Trulli off into the grass to stay behind him.. A video of this has been put on here recently.with the full McLaren text.
LH was between a rock & a hard place in that situation. But you say ..lied to gain positions..plural....?

He's said he doesn't want team orders...he wants to race JB,he has said so...but he has to be able to trust his team..don't change his launch/clutch on the warm up lap allowing his team mate to get past him into the first corner.When he put in a cracking quali lap to get where he was.
I will be sad to see him leave McLaren, he has said it's not about money...
If he is so ruthless..why did he go wide onto the grass at turn one in at the start of a race ...to allow Button to be released from behind Alonso who was facing the wrong way...Australia last year? He then nipped in for an early change of tyres the team were taken by suprise...he didn't get on the radio, or have track position..Ted Kravitz was at McLaren reporting this live. JB won the race....I've watched other races were LH needed to come in for tyres & Button with track position stayed out another lap...so LH had to stay out 2 more laps & lost a place to Massa?There are many more .
I would not support LH if he was a lying ruthless underhand sneaky git.....so what do you mean by.........
'tell his engineers to do one?'

 

[Hamberg]

Goodness, next you'll be saying Glock was on the wrong tyres!

(yes that was a joke)

 

[teabagyokel]

McLaren lied to try to get Lewis a position back, that is if you are talking about the Trulli debacle.... ..I often woder why Toyota didn't know the rules either.

For all the professionalism, ruthlessness and winning mentality that was a hallmark of Toyota's time in F1 , they did know the rules in this situation, thus they knew Trulli was allowed to pass Hamilton when he dramatically slowed down. They were then penalised for this because LEWIS HAMILTON and McLaren lied.

In fact, if someone allowed a driver through for 3rd place to cover his arse in case the FIA get narky, then tells the FIA that he didn't in order to cheat that driver out of the podium position he has just inherited, I would say those are the actions of a lying, ruthless, underhand, sneaky git.

You also seem to make a virtue out of his total obedience to the team in this situation; a total obedience to the team that was rather scarce in Budapest in 2007 when he was required to move over for his team-mate and a total obedience that was even scarcer when he released confidential information into the wild last week.

When it comes down to it, F1ang-o, F1 is not about black and white morality. F1's morals roughly range from the colour of tarmac to the colour of tyres; they're few and far between and never allowed to impinge on the business of winning. And it is obvious to everyone that Lewis Hamilton is as ruthless, underhand and sneaky as all of these drivers.

 

[Lewywo4]

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Funny that but I could have sworn team orders that day meant Hamilton should keep the lead. Button didn't quite get the message right but was swiftly instructed to let Hamilton re-pass him....

If Button was swiftly instructed to let Hamilton re-pass him, he definitely wasn't listening, because Jenson said, " we had a good little battle and we were wheel to wheel for three corners, but it positioned me wrong for the final corner, I got a poor exit and he was able to get back past me along the pits straight and on the inside into turn one."

Lewis without a doubt, was re-taking back that position from Jenson going into turn one.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Makes you wonder how poor Denny Hulme managed when he arrived at Mclaren in 1968 and promptly beat Bruce McLaren in the chapionship. Hows that for team orders.

 

[Lewywo4]

Do you mean HK getting out of the way of LH...after a few corners when, LH came out after his pit stop
If you do...was HK in serious contention for WDC 2008?
Was he a faster driver, did he put his car on pole more...?

F1ang-o....I happen to believe that Germany in 2008, was one of Lewis's best performances, and so did Ross Brawn and Niki Lauda.

Ross Brawn said.... " It was reminiscent of Michael's greatest drives."

Niki Lauda said....." The race was won by Lewis and not by the team, because the team made it unnecessarily complicated
(by not pitting Hamilton during the safety car period)...." It was an absolutely great race from him...." It was Senna type driving."

 

[Lewywo4]

In other news, I wonder, with Mclaren having closed in on Ferrari and Red Bull in the last couple of races, will Ferrari open the gap again due to them being able to test new mods at the young driver test?y?

I wonder what excuse that Mclaren will have, for not sending Oliver Turvey to this session?...

 

[F1ang-o]

lewymp4
McLaren do make life difficult for Lewis...
I thought Spa 2008 was also one of his best ...the last few laps on th wrong tyres was awesome...
Then it was gifted to Ferrari trundling in .... third.....Massa "lukin after mi points" was gifted the win.

 

[The Artist.....]

@f1ango

So you're blaming mclaren for spa now? Stop talking crap! NONE of the top 3 stopped for new tyres... Had they stopped, they could have been better off... But none of them did... Very few drivers stopped for wets!

 

[F1ang-o]

@f1ango

So you're blaming mclaren for spa now? Stop talking crap! NONE of the top 3 stopped for new tyres... Had they stopped, they could have been better off... But none of them did... Very few drivers stopped for wets!

No I am not blaming McLaren for Spa.............but thank-you for asking.

I was replying to Lewy & saying which race I liked best.... in 2008 & why.....because of the awesome driving on wrong tyres

China 2007 takes a lot of beating.......for Best McLaren

 

[Hamberg]

Monaco 2011 was pretty special

 

[F1ang-o]

Niki Lauda said....." The race was won by Lewis and not by the team, because the team made it unnecessarily complicated
(by not pitting Hamilton during the safety car period)...." It was an absolutely great race from him...." It was Senna type driving."[/quote]


McLaren do make life difficult for Lewis....[/quote]

This is what I was replying to........

 

[KekeTheKing]

23 drivers and 11 teams.

Bro, you know full well that nobody is stopping anybody from discussing anything they might desire (within reason). The fact that there is so much discussion surrounding LH may annoy some people to no end, but I fail to see how this hinders anyone from posting about whatever they so choose.

I logged in simply to like your post.

So let me get this straight. You're poking around CTA, you happen to wander into the McLaren thread, and you're aghast to see a discussion centering around one of their drivers?

If you're not logged in, and you don't have a link to post, how is the rather commonplace debate over F1's most polarizing driver ruining your browsing experience?

I would say those are the actions of a lying, ruthless, underhand, sneaky git.

You don't seriously think that Hamilton orchestrated the Oz 2009 aftermath? He was like a deer in headlights after the race because he had just been informed by Dave Ryan (unless he took the fall for someone else) that they now needed to sell a story that was going to be very easily disproved.

Interestingly, these actions had the knock on effect of having formerly confidential material released to the public by way of the full McLaren radio transcripts, and helped institute the practice of making every team's radio chatter available during the broadcast (if FOM wants to play it).


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I know some may find this unfortunate, but not every poster wants to sit around and take pot-shots at Lewis and talk about what a menace to the global community he is. If a certain point of view simply cannot be tolerated, the "ignore" feature might be appropriate, otherwise the problem will likely be compounded.


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As for the contract situation......

McLaren should have stepped up a long time ago. The fact that they have no contingency plan should a divorce occur is basically an admission that the prospect is nigh on unthinkable.

 

[teabagyokel]

KekeTheKing - I didn't say he orchestrated it, but he did lie to the stewards.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

...but you did say "lying, ruthless underhand sneaky git", which certainly does imply that you think he orchestrated it. Quite strongly, in fact.

I've told fibs under instruction from my employers, too, but if anyone were to label me in such a way I would consider it a hugely disproportionate attack on my character.

 

[Brogan]

This is yet another thread which has become about Hamilton.

The Hamilton thread is here: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/lewis-hamilton.3031/

The Hamilton vs Button thread is here: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/

All further off topic posts from this point on will be deleted.

 

[Hamberg]

Well there is a difference between a fib and what is effectively fraud. I've seen it plenty of times in my own jobs where people will do what they're told. I personally would not do that as I think it's completely unethical and would prefer to part company. I realise I'm in the minority.

Anway I think this has been derailed enough hasn't it?

• McLaren have had plenty of questionable actions that have impacted both drivers and I believe they try to play it safe and often panic and get it wrong with the driver in a good position and take risks with the driver further back that sometimes pay off. This is nothing more than incompetence as far as I'm aware.
• Hamilton is exceptional with his skill, is generally a nice guy however is no angel

 

[sportsman]

KekeTheKing. Far from poking around I specifically looked at the McLaren thread.There is a thread devoted to Lewis Hamilton which I avoid as it has little interest to me.