Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[F1Brits_90]

Ahh yes, the fall from the front of the grid to the back can be rapid, the climb back to the front is usually a lot harder sadly.

yes well we just have to ask Williams for that, since since 1998 they probally only challenged for the title once in 2003

even my grandma could win with the Merc of the last 5 years

2014 - 2016 I agree you couldve stuck 2/3rds of the grid in the car & they could been world champion. but lewis they say your only rival is your teammate. & bar 2016 he has destroyed his teammate in 4 of the 5 seasons he won 2014 despite a 3 month run of horrendous bad luck during the season 2015 Rosberg blown away 2018 11 wins to bottas 0, 1st to bottas 5th. including the last 2 when he won the title in my opinion the 2nd best car as the vettel Ferrari was better car but they Imploded under pressure in most important times handing the titles to Mercedes

also that pole lap in Singapore was absolute perfection under the big pressure

 

[BradMan]

Every top driver has probably driven that one pole lap that defies logic. Vettel has done SEVERAL.
There were circumstances that led to Vettel making those mistakes. You determine the fastest car of the season by nr of pole laps right. Despite what's being said, Merc was the car to beat last season. Vettel just had sublime races in between

 

[RasputinLives]

Bloomin refugees! Coming over here and making our forum flow with interesting and new opinions. I say we build a firewall to keep them out and make them pay for it!!!

Joking of course. It's very nice to have different people to interact with so welcome. I might not always agree with your opinion but I respect your right to have it. As long as nothing gets personal it's all good.

 

[Angel]

It's my fault, I led the way RasputinLives

Then again, if you guys hadn't been so sweet, I wouldn't have stayed and I wouldn't have told my friends about how wonderful you all are


As for the racing, well I agree Mercedes have had the car to beat, and Ferrari have made some bad mistakes, but not as bad as the choices McLaren have made in recent years. Did you see what I did there to get it back on topic?

I am genuinely interested to know if Norris will be faster than Sainz and whether or not they will both be trundling round at the back of the pack, or will they be faster than Williams? Based on last year it could be a close run thing.

 

[BradMan]

l

Bloomin refugees! Coming over here and making our forum flow with interesting and new opinions. I say we build a firewall to keep them out and make them pay for it!!!

Joking of course. It's very nice to have different people to interact with so welcome. I might not always agree with your opinion but I respect your right to have it. As long as nothing gets personal it's all good.

lol. Happy to talk F1 with you RL

Could'nt agree more with bolded part. Its refreshing

 

[Angel]

l

lol. Happy to talk F1 with you RL

Could'nt agree more with bolded part. Its refreshing

That is the nice thing about this place, people do respect one another. If they don't, cider_and_toast our supermod goes all orange on them!!

 

[BradMan]

That is the nice thing about this place, people do respect one another. If they don't, cider_and_toast our supermod goes all orange on them!!

Its definately welcomed.

 

[RasputinLives]

Angel yes I'll hold you fully responsible!

This is our biggest influx since the great 606 migration of 2010! Any of you guys been around since then?

 

[Angel]

Angel yes I'll hold you fully responsible!

This is our biggest influx since the great 606 migration of 2010! Any of you guys been around since then?

Well I joined grandprix .com forum in 2003 and back then it felt much like this place does now. 2010 is ironically when we had WWIII there and moderators were brought in to clean the place up, which we did. Several people had their accounts deleted but by then a lot of nicer people had been driven out or had got fed up of the nastiness and left sadly. The forum closed in 2016, opened again briefly in 2017 (about a month I think) and then again in early 2018 (about 2-3 weeks) then closed again for good.
The others all joined there after me I think but we were pretty much the only four serious, regular posters there towards the end. I am pretty sure none of us came over here until I stumbled on the place last year and sent out the call that I'd found a place that felt like the home we'd lost. Ever since then, you've been stuck with us

 

[FB]

Meanwhile, back at the MTC, they have a new hashtag #fearlessly forward, which is a little ironic as they have spent the last 5 years going backwards and Mrs Christian Horner is on they homepage making a vomit face at the launch of a McLaren Merc back in the late 90's.

 

[RasputinLives]

I like Lando Norris.
I like Carlos Sainz.
I love to support actual race teams over manufacturers.

...........yet I still can't bring myself to hope McLaren do well.

My excuse used to be Ron Dennis, then Fernando Alonso but now I don't have one. Maybe it's all the media stuff

 

[BradMan]

Meanwhile, back at the MTC, they have a new hashtag #fearlessly forward, which is a little ironic as they have spent the last 5 years going backwards and Mrs Christian Horner is on they homepage making a vomit face at the launch of a McLaren Merc back in the late 90's.

View attachment 12308

 

[Izumi]

I like Lando Norris.
I like Carlos Sainz.
I love to support actual race teams over manufacturers.

...........yet I still can't bring myself to hope McLaren do well.

My excuse used to be Ron Dennis, then Fernando Alonso but now I don't have one. Maybe it's all the media stuff

Is it my misconception or is it factual that Ron Dennis, like him or not, has actually done something positive for the team and McLaren organization during his tenure? What has Brown done other than after several lean years came up with five-years plan (which is suited more for Haas and other new entrants, than an old-hand)? I think Dennis should get some credit regardless whether you like him or not, but that just my opinion.

Don't you think denying racing pedigree to manufacturers is rather strange way to assess history? I am not sure why people dislike "manufacturers", however I think without them, quite possibly, there would not be any F1 racing today. Ecclestone and CVC knew it, which is why they bent backwards to accept hybrids, instead tell them to go fish.

Things went wrong IMO from day one, when concept of "commercial license owner" was conceived. Racing triumvirate (race promoters, FiA, and teams) working together was all what was needed for setting up functional racing series. Manufacturers in current form (misnomer as it is, since all teams are actually manufacturers) is one of symptoms of something more problematic in the background.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Lando Norris is originally from Bristol.

I am originally from Bristol.

I have something in common with Lando Norris.

I like Lando Norris.

 

[RasputinLives]

Izumi - barring Ferrari (who have always been an exception to the rule) IMO F1 was always a better sport when you had race team combined with engine supplier. As soon as engine suppliers have their own team they immediately put a stopper on any customer team beating them, up the budget so little teams can't keep up and use F1 as a car advert.

They have also made us believe the sport has always had manufacturer teams. This is simply not true - again barring Ferrari. Take a look at the 90s and see how many teams we had that built cars for sale and also take a look at how many different engines and teams we had.

Just my view if course. But when the sport because about promoting a brand name it's worrying.

 

[Angel]

I have to say I've never warmed to McLaren and Ron Dennis was a big part of it for me too. He's gone now though and I still can't warm to them but I can't say why.

 

[sobriety]

McLaren now sponsored by BAT

McLaren signs deal with British American Tobacco

 

[Angel]

McLaren now sponsored by BAT

McLaren signs deal with British American Tobacco

So there's going to be some creative bodywork then I suspect, I wonder if they've got two designs and will put a big zip down the middle

 

[RasputinLives]

Max Verstappen to be personally sponsored by Cannabis

If Max hasn't crashed, is it even a race?


(Not really)

 

[Izumi]

[

Izumi - barring Ferrari (who have always been an exception to the rule) IMO F1 was always a better sport when you had race team combined with engine supplier. As soon as engine suppliers have their own team they immediately put a stopper on any customer team beating them, up the budget so little teams can't keep up and use F1 as a car advert.

They have also made us believe the sport has always had manufacturer teams. This is simply not true - again barring Ferrari. Take a look at the 90s and see how many teams we had that built cars for sale and also take a look at how many different engines and teams we had.

Just my view if course. But when the sport because about promoting a brand name it's worrying.

I am not sure racing was better in the "old times". So much has changed with evolution of technology, it would take a lot of time to make any sense from checkered F1 history, and perhaps most importantly, to what aim? What kind of forensic level analysis is required on the past to prove who is responsible for current state of sport and who is the judge what is or isn’t „better“? There are no simple answers available. As far as I am concerned, racing is close in Tier 1 cluster, that's fine with me, but more needs to be done with safe overtaking. Cars should be able to follow each other nose to tail.

Forgive me if I sound argumentative, but I do not buy into unsubstantiated conspiracy that teams like Renault, Ferrari, Mercedes and Honda do sabotage efforts of their engine customers. Ethical issues is just one aspect, however more likely there are technical aspects in area of integration which can make difference. Just recently Ferrari had that issue at home. Instead optimized integration, body engineering got upper hand, and engine people had mud all over them. That was fixed next season, and it worked. Compromise/accomodation is the word I was looking for. To be frank, in some cases I am quite suspicious that certain teams are hiding their own shortcomings, while blaming an engine supplier for their lack of performance.

With respect to "manufacturers", I think we need to agree on definitions first. As soon you build a racing prototype, you are a manufacturing entity (at least in my dictionary). Some team owners shy away from being called manufacturers, yet they all diversified and have other active some level of businesses going on. Some sell beer, others fizzy drinks, others built expensive, limited editions cars. To isolate automotive group alone as having interest in promotions seems not very accurate.