McLaren summoned by the WMSC

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
So it begins.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been invited to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, to answer charges that, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, it

  • on 29 March, 2009, told the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix that no instructions were given to Hamilton in Car No. 1 to allow Trulli in Car no. 9 to pass when both cars were behind the safety car, knowing this statement to be untrue;
  • procured its driver Hamilton the current World Champion, to support and confirm this untrue statement to the stewards;
  • although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;
  • on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;
  • on 2 April, 2009, at the second stewards' hearing, procured its driver Hamilton to continue to assert the truth of the false statement given to the stewards on 29 March, while knowing that what he was saying to the stewards was not true.

FIA Press Release
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
Its sounded very ominous when Max said that he couldn't dent that Mclrean were going to be summonded up by the WMSC. This really doesn't sound good for McLraren. Don't think WMSC would do if they didn't want to add extra penalties in the first place. Im just wondering how far this could go? Disqualifaction from 09 championchip. One thing for sure the FIA dont seem very pleased at all.

Another point related is that Dave Ryan has been sacked. After 30+ years of service and someone who is very respected in F1. Could this be an attempt to save face and aviod any other penatlies the WMSC want to impose?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74348
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
McLaren have been there before, but I can't really see them getting away with this one! I think if anyone wants to ditch a driver in late April then the reigning World Champion may be available! McLaren could find themselves on the F1 scrapheap for a year with a get-out clause for their disaffected champion and Pedro de la Rosa heading up their 2010 effort! If Hamilton goes, he could replace Nakajima at Williams or Fisichella at Force India or even Barrichello at Brawn (Mercedes adverts must be produced!) If he goes to Brawn then this could be the best thing for him vis á vis the World Championship! As for Kovalainen, can't you just see him back at Renault? I'd love to see Renault try to nick Hamilton, the phrase "all hell broke loose" will have been underused up to that point. I can't see too many teams who wouldn't want Hamilton on board - he's the World Champion, although there may be a few jumpy team no.1s!

If Hamilton goes somewhere else, does he take his car number with him? And does this make his new team-mate car no.2?

Enough speculation, however, and back on to fact! McLaren were about as clever as one of the "ghosts" off Scooby Doo if they thought the meddling kids (stewards) wouldn't intervene. McLaren are in big, big trouble. Many on the WMSC will be upset they didn't boot McLaren's cars off the 2007 grid and will want to get revenge. On a plus point, they can get their 2010 car ready if the flash of silver in the background is removed.

Frankly, it's easier being Kovalainen... 25 seconds of work on a Sunday afternoon, pack up, bugger off and no controversy...
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
I wonder if Dave Ryan will attend?

As he has now been sacked I presume he's under no obligation to attend and the FIA/WMSC can't force him to?
 

Amdathlonuk

Somewhat related.........
Contributor
Brogan said:
I wonder if Dave Ryan will attend?

As he has now been sacked I presume he's under no obligation to attend and the FIA/WMSC can't force him to?
I'm not sure on that, I'm sure he is a memeber of certain racing pedigree clubs therefore they may have the power to 'summon' him.

As you know a colleague of mine worked at Mclaren for 15+ years and spent quite a while with Mr Ryan, I'll ask him if he thinks he can be summoned to appear.

If they boot Mclaren out of the championship are they allowed to continue with less than 20 cars?
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Amdathlonuk said:
If they boot Mclaren out of the championship are they allowed to continue with less than 20 cars?
I believe there's no problem for Bernie unless the grid falls below 16.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
As low as 16?

I must admit I thought 20 was the lower limit and some teams would be forced to run a 3rd car.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
The copy of the Concorde Agreement I saw, which has subsequently been taken off the internet, 16 was the lower limit.

That might have changed, of course, but I don't know why it would, really? The key thing for Bernie is that below that limit he has to start refunding circuit promoters' fees.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
In that case it doesn't look good for McLaren.

I suspect 2007 will be taken into consideration and the penalty this time will be even worse.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
The fact it's the second time that McLaren have been found in breach of this same article in less than 2 years could well be a telling factor in any punishment that is given.

I still think it's likely to be a 2 race ban.... (although, I wouldn't put it past the WMSC to throw McLaren out for the season) - which would be a disaster for them. Immediate problems would be that they would once again receive no tv money, but also, they would find that they'd have potential law-suits with Vodafone to contend with (As they will not be on the circuit) - This is a worst case scenario right now!

If they were thrown out, I suspect this would be the end of McLaren..... But then, draconian fines would also be the end of them as well! I'll also be surprised if no-one else from McLaren were involved with Dave Ryan's decision - or whether there has been a culture of pushing the boundaries well beyond the grey area at McLaren....
 

Amdathlonuk

Somewhat related.........
Contributor
The Artist..... said:
- or whether there has been a culture of pushing the boundaries well beyond the grey area at McLaren....
Like most of the other teams in the championship, unfortunately for Mclaren they keep getting discovered!!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
i just cannot get over the fact macca and LH lied twice. even when they knew they were found out, they still stuck to their story. of course there is already not a shred of sympathy possible for trulli being demoted cos of this. and on top of that lying at 2 stewards meetings.

to me, hungary 2007 was already bad. in my view LH tricked nando there and had his team mate demoted. but i had hopes this would be a one off of a silly tookie who didn't know what he was doing and one day we would see an adult guy standing up for what he did. but what we expereinced this time is beyond my widest dreams.

i have now a sincere problem with macca but LH in particular. i accept he is a great driver and he can really bring someting to a race. but after this, how can i, or anyone else, ever take LH serious again. and i think this is a big problem for LH now and in the future. i hope this will not lead to more situations like what we had, with a driver being demoted and one senior employee being fired. and a driver lying to the stewards twice and not even showing remorse for that or the consequences.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
Boga - To be fair, you have always had a problem with Hamilton, that really is nothing new. As for the lying, as a driver, you are paid to say what your team tell you no matter how stupid that is.

Hungary 07 I still think was an argument between 2 team mates that Alonso took too far, if he had given him just enough time to get around, he still could have made his point.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
As for the lying, as a driver, you are paid to say what your team tell you no matter how stupid that is.

surely you do not mean this seriously.

and just for the record, i never had anything for or aginast LH. i just have not seen him deliver much up to this day. but i always gave him the benefit of the doubt.
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
surely you do not mean this seriously.

Of course I mean it, he is just the first to do it in such a stupid situation and the first to get caught out by a rule change that helps the public (everyone gets to hear what is said over the radio).

As for Hamilton not achieving anything, he won the world championship last year with the FIA against him, but I guess you must have missed that one. He also has finished twice in the points (without penalties being added) in what is widely believed to be a car that should not be able to get in a points scoring position.

Guess that is nothing, considering he has only been in F1 for 2 full seasons so far..
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
what did mclaren do to make LH tell this? did they threaten to fire him? put a gun to his head? put a knife to his throat?

this is an adult guy, i do hope his parents told him whats right and whats wrong. and getting a driver willingly demoted is about as wrong as one can get. and not just once, but twice!

is it so hard for you to see this was LH doing and doing this by his own decision?

the FIA has never been against LH, the only ememy LH has is himself.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
I think you've made your views on Lewis Hamilton quite clear boga on this and numerous other threads.

Can we get back to the subject of the thread please which is about McLaren being summoned by the WMSC?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Thanks boga, just trying to keep this thread focussed on what the implications are for McLaren.

I have a feeling that it could be very bad for McLaren this time around, and I don't mean financially.

They were warned back in 2007 if they breached article 151c again they would face being kicked out of F1.
I see no reason why the FIA/WMSC will be lenient on them.

The repercussions for McLaren could be dire indeed with the current state of the global economy.
As I understand it, Mercedes are having a meeting today so we might even get some news on how they intend to carry on with McLaren later.

All in all, it doesn't look good for the 2nd oldest team in F1.

And when you consider what it is over, it's a truly surreal situation.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
you're right about the implications for macca Bro. but the implications for F1 could be much bigger. cos it would confirm some people's thoughts that FIA has it in for macca. and that is potentially far more damaging for f1 then any punishment for macca.

right now it seems clear FIA does not has it in for macca, just think of the ECU supplied by Macca to all other teams and the fact the team was not punished as harshly as it could have been in 2007. but that could change, and then F1 really has an issue.
 
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