McLaren Development Program. Abandon 2011 ?

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Do what I do, Ray...a bit like Lewis H, but he doesn't have a delete/edit option, unfortunately.

Well, in that case, Lewis should not say anything. I mean what's there to say?

If I were Lewis, i'd say this:

"That was unfortunate. I'm already looking forward to Monza where the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes should show well. We have a good car and we're going to every race to push for wins. I'll be analyzing data over the next few days and spending time in the simulator for a few days after that and i'll be hitting the gym hard - as I ususally do - every day. See you in Italy. Bye!"



How's that?

 

[Fenderman]

Well, in that case, Lewis should not say anything. I mean what's there to say?

If I were Lewis, i'd say this:

"That was unfortunate. I'm already looking forward to Monza where the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes should show well. We have a good car and we're going to every race to push for wins. I'll be analyzing data over the next few days and spending time in the simulator for a few days after that and i'll be hitting the gym hard - as I ususally do - every day. See you in Italy. Bye!"



How's that?

Hey, you pinched that from the standard script. Isn't that what they all say?

Oh, and I was referring to his talking on track not in public. He's already editing that beforehand. I mean, apologies? hmmm.

Sorry, skewed well and truly off topic again. I shall desist.

 

[Pyrope]

How informed are you? Like most, they effectively run two development teams side by side and work on next year's car is well under way.

Actually, when Pat Fry left they restructured their technical department and abandoned that way of working. This year's car is the last designed by a parallel team. They now just have a single technical group all working together, and they'll have been working on aspects of next year's car for at least a month already.

Whether they should switch development to the 2012 car or not would largely seem to rest on whether that car will be a development of the MP4-26 or not. If it will be an evolution then they have very little to lose by keeping development of the -26 going until very late in the season. If it is another clean sheet design (as this year's was) then they should probably switch focus a bit sooner.

 

[downforce]

Next year there is no EBD so every teams cars will effectively be "silverstone 2011 spec". McLaren lost more than Red-Bull and Ferrari and slipped behind them for that race.

To give an idea on how things are McLaren said they put 6 upgrades on the car for Spa, 1 of the 6 is a concept that was stolen from thier 2012 car as it was applicable to the 2011 car as well. So they have definately begun. But I think they should move more focus to next year now. Say 2 to 4 upgrades should be coming from next years car.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Perhaps they ought to drop the EBD for the rest of the year and try and get on even terms with the teams that do have it by November. That will certainly steal a march on the competition for next year. They still need to defend their 2nd place in the constructors from Ferrari though, and that's worth a handy few million squid.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Why not just keep it and get ahead so that they're on terms next year?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Why not just keep it and get ahead so that they're on terms next year?

Eh? By focusing 100% on next year we are essentially saying that they should use the rest of the season as a series of tests. Running an EBD won't help them perfect a non-EBD solution. You with me?

If they want to bin this year's challenge and focus on next year they should bring thier car as close to next year's spec as possible and then develop it through the remainder of the season. That means moving their exhaust exits, dropping the EBD and anything else they can do to move closer to 2012 regs.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Perhaps if they secured 2nd in thw WCC they could use a race or two to test a development that was meant for the MP4-27 but otherwise it might prove stupid if it costs them cash.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Perhaps if they secured 2nd in thw WCC they could use a race or two to test a development that was meant for the MP4-27 but otherwise it might prove stupid if it costs them cash.

Yep. It would be a big potentially expensive gamble.

 

[Quintessentially]

Actually, when Pat Fry left they restructured their technical department and abandoned that way of working. This year's car is the last designed by a parallel team. They now just have a single technical group all working together, and they'll have been working on aspects of next year's car for at least a month already.

They still effectively run parallel development teams. I don't know when they started working on next year's car but to start trialling its components on the current car suggests that they've been working on it for quite some time. Certainly longer than a month. In fact here's Paffett confirming that he's been working on the 2012 charger for a few months now (I know it's the Sun but this is nothing like the sensationalist nonsense they generally publish)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/3769627/Paffett-tests-Lews-2012-McLaren.html

 

[Quintessentially]

Next year there is no EBD so every teams cars will effectively be "silverstone 2011 spec". McLaren lost more than Red-Bull and Ferrari and slipped behind them for that race.

I think the EBD thing was overplayed and it was more of a setup issue. The problem started in Valencia where they were still allowed EBD but yet struggled massively during the race.

 

[Pyrope]

They still effectively run parallel development teams.

The point was that they don't run the completely separate teams any more. The individual grunts at the drawing board (ok, ok, CAD/CAM terminal) may have one focus, but the people directing the programs are working on both cars and so can maintain a line of development rather than each car effectively starting from scratch, which has been holding back McLaren in recent years. McLaren was the only team that ever tried having two entirely separate technical departments working in parallel and they have stopped. It makes sense really, as most science and technology development is best done by the hive mind rather than one individual relying on their own genius.

 

[Quintessentially]

The technical teams were never truly separate (or independent) in the first place and were intergrated teams. At senior level there would be one technical head steering both design teams, like the head of aerodynamics for example. McLaren have always had one individual covering this role and so have Ferrari. Depending on deliverables, you can also have one design engineer covering either technical team or separate engineers and anyone who’s worked for a design consultancy before would confirm that it is not unusual to input into more than one project/design at any point. The Increasing reliability of simulator data means McLaren can now streamline their resources/manpower, but the point remains that they still effectively run a concurrent development strategy (to clarify). Both programmes will also be naturally staggered to avoid conflict so the point raised earlier in the thread about aborting work on the current car to allow them to focus on next year’s will bring very little benefits. Stopping work on this year's car does not automatically mean you free up resources as both cars are at different stages of the development process. In real terms, you’re just going to end up with someone sitting there with nothing to do and suddenly become inefficient.

As a side note - they paid a heavy price in 2009 not only because of rule changes but also the over reliance on simulator data (something which Ron Dennis confirmed during the season). Rather than focusing on optimising components (a costly process of course as you can end up with several iterations and wastage) they designed towards limiting downforce values like pressure tapping velocities which they had calculated from the rules and technical details. When it went to test, it turned out the values were too low contrary to what the simulator told them, not to mention the calibration issues they subsequently had to rectify. The end result was a dog of a car.

 

[Brogan]

Prew said McLaren is set to shift its focus to the 2012 car, but he is still expecting some improvements that will help its pace this season.

"There's always been a balance, but as we approach the tail end of this season the emphasis will move towards the MP-27," he said, "but there's still much learning that we can have with the MP-26 so with the development plans that we have at the moment.

"We should be looking at components that will give lap time benefit that we can hopefully carry over to next year, such as with front wings and rear wings for example that are directly transferable with the changes in the regulations, so hopefully we can benefit from both seasons."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94298

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Think Mclaren should give up after Singapore if they fail to win tomorrows Grand Prix. It would make sense as really it could help them big style for 2012.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Think Mclaren should give up after Singapore if they fail to win tomorrows Grand Prix. It would make sense as really it could help them big style for 2012.

See Brogan's post above.

 

[Quintessentially]

I take it the car is now pretty much a guinea pig for the rest of the season.

 

[Quintessentially]

oops

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94510

 

[Brogan]

Deluded.

 

[Quintessentially]

Could be a ploy to get Redbull to continue to engage/exhaust their resources and not simply cruise to the finish line. McLaren did confirm they'll shift focus to the 2012 car after Monza.