Current Lewis Hamilton

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[F1ang-o]

Please don't ruin the thread again. Someone's gotta be sensible enough to walk away.

Goodnight

 

[Quintessentially]

3rd?

Or would the Mercedes have over-taken the McLaren even if the McLaren was closer to the RBR and in it's slipstream?

Almost certainly not. In fact forget slipstream, a good exit out of Parabolica would've helped and Hamilton had the straight line speed to at least keep up with the Ferrari and Redbull. Turn one would've been too crowded for Schumacher to realistically pull out a clean move. Normally you'd have race engineers on the radio before the SC restart giving their drivers instructions and where they need to be so not to be disadvantaged yet it seems McLaren (not just Hamilton) did not realise this and the danger behind.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

In all fairness I think a good exit out of parabolica would've helped. Schumacher was literally on his tail before the start line...

The reason why Schumacher was so close coming out of the Parabolica was that he was pretty much alongside at the end of the back straight. I remember thinking at the time, "What on earth's he doing there?". That's what Lewis referred to in the post-race interview with Lee McKenzie. He was looking at what Schumacher was doing, and as a result got left behind by the two leaders at the restart.

 

[Brogan]

I remember thinking at the time, "What on earth's he doing there?".

It worked, didn't it?

 

[Quintessentially]

The reason why Schumacher was so close coming out of the Parabolica was that he was pretty much alongside at the end of the back straight. I remember thinking at the time, "What on earth's he doing there?". That's what Lewis referred to in the post-race interview with Lee McKenzie. He was looking at what Schumacher was doing, and as a result got left behind by the two leaders at the restart.

I've posted the footage on the previous page.The Mercs will always keep up if not go faster on the straights so that wasn’t as important a factor as the poor entry and exit Hamilton had out of Parabolica. He was effectively cruising through there. Even if Schumacher was close at the end of the back straight, the McLaren was setup to be faster through the turn and this is where Hamilton should’ve pulled a gap, especially as the RB/Ferrari had already bolted. You can look up the race sector times on FIA’s website. The McLaren was on an average half a second faster than the Mercs through sector 3 and most of it was down to Parabolica.

 

[VanChallis]

One last pair of questions and then I won't say anymore on this subject. They're valid questions and your answers may change my mind on it.

Keke, do you think catching a tow in Vettel's slipstream on the restart would have helped Lewis keep 3rd?

Or would the Mercedes have over-taken the McLaren even if the McLaren was closer to the RBR and in it's slipstream?

Thanks.

My opinion is that if Lewis wasn't caught at the wrong moment with the restart, and was right behind Vettel, Michael would have got him anyway, and probably would have got Vettel as well.
I loved to see proper racing between Schumi and Lewis. In `the rules` Schumi should have had a penalty of some sort, for the deliberate blocking and making more than one defensive move on numerous occasions. But in my view, the correct action was taken by telling the team to warn Michael about it. My only annoyance about it is that I'm positive that Lewis would have been penalised, had the situations been reversed

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

When you see the replay again Ray you'll see that Schumacher came from WAY BACK and simply cruised past the McLaren on the outside into the chicane.

Ok, Keke, so not only did I see all the replays...but I also watched the rebroadcast on Speed TV 9 hours after watching the live BBC broadcast. [Speed TV's live broadcast is 'blacked out' in Canada because we pick up the BBC live feed...but the Speed TV rebroadcast is not blacked out.]

Anyway, in it, even David Hobbs - who isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the box in my opinion - noted how far back from Vettel Lewis was on the Safety Car-In lap half way from Ascari to Parabolica. He was ALARMINGLY far back!

Since our debate yesterday even Lewis himself has admited he should have been on to Vettel, specifically mentioning Vettel's "slipstream".

Lewis's words here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/9/12517.html

Further, I don't think Schumacher "simply cruised passed the McLaren". It was a friggin' Dog Fight which Schumacher would have had a much harder time winning had Hamilton caught a healthy dose of 'Double Tow' from Alonso-Vettel.

Now, Keke, I ask you one question which I hope you will answer in all good conscience:

Have you changed your mind on this subject after all known information and, more importantly, after reading/hearing Lewis' own words on this very subject about Vettel's "slipstream"?

Thank you in advance, Keke.

My opinion is that if Lewis wasn't caught at the wrong moment with the restart, and was right behind Vettel, Michael would have got him anyway, and probably would have got Vettel as well.

Vettel was right with Alonso...so would Schumacher have got Alonso too?

There's a very good reason why every driver was desperate to catch a tow in Qualifying on Saturday at Monza. A very good reason.

Shame that Hamilton wasn't thinking hard enough to be in Alonso-Vettel's double tow...it cost him and McLaren a victory.

[Button's shit start and shit re-start (where he found himself down in 7th) cost McLaren a victory too, by the way...so it wasn't only one McLaren driver's failing.]

If I were Ron Dennis i'd be livid with, especially, Button for having my car down there in 7th on lap 5.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Shame that Hamilton wasn't thinking hard enough to be in Alonso-Vettel's double tow...it cost him and McLaren a victory.

The only thing on Lewis' mind was to finish the race without contact with anyone, especially MS who was being particularly arsy and in the old MS profile. Lewis was not watching Vettel he was watching MS in his mirrors who was almost level with him at one point and spoiling for a scrap.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Yes but, CF6, what does Hamilton "staying out of trouble"/"finishing the race without any contact with anyone" have anything to do with making sure he's up there with Alonso and Vettel on the Safety Car-In restart?

The two occurences have nothing to do with each other.

I do think that Schuey was being slightly dirty with his weaving and blocking. It really held up Hamilton and destroyed his race win chances...but that could have been completely avoided had he been up there with Vettel-Alonso on the re-start.

 

[RasputinLives]

I do think you're in a minority of 1 on this front Ray. Yes Lewis was asleep on the restart but Schumi and that Merc were fastest through that first sector all weekend and he'd have got him anyways because he was just on it yesterday.

I really enjoyed the 20 lap long fight yesterday and I give respect to both drivers for how hard they thought.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I really enjoyed the 20 lap long fight yesterday and I give respect to both drivers for how hard they thought.

Yes. It was a real Dog Fight!

Exciting!



I do think that Schumacher was driving the inferior car. Look at the difference in lap times in Qualifying.

The main difference was Schumi was borderline dirty while Lewis was driving super clean because of what's been going on at this point in history (i.e. the one-way criticism of Lewis in terms of contact with other drivers.)

It's true that Mercedes were much faster in a straight line...but the other big determining factor was Michael being a bit dirty whilst Lewis was purposely driving very cleanly.

 

[RasputinLives]

I really enjoyed the 20 lap long fight yesterday and I give respect to both drivers for how hard they thought.

 

[Quintessentially]

Yes but, CF6, what does Hamilton "staying out of trouble"/"finishing the race without any contact with anyone" have anything to do with making sure he's up there with Alonso and Vettel on the Safety Car-In restart?

.

I think it means retaining position and not trying to slipstream anyone into trouble. He didn’t make the best out of the situation behind the SC but I think he was trying to keep away from a dogfight with Redbull and Ferrari into turn one just as much as he was trying to fend off Schumacher.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I really enjoyed the 20 lap long fight yesterday and I give respect to both drivers for how hard they thought.

I agree. BOTH fought tooth-and-nail! Mano-A-Mano.

A real fiesty Dog Fight between the two!

Loved it!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

The team messed up on the top gear ratios

What's the point of a tow when you are pinging off the limiter anyway, MS would have passed anyway as Lewis would have jumped out of the way to avoid contact

At least Lewis was not penalised for weaving behind MS

Yes but, CF6, what does Hamilton "staying out of trouble"/"finishing the race without any contact with anyone" have anything to do with making sure he's up there with Alonso and Vettel on the Safety Car-In restart?

MS was weaving about before the restart, Lewis focussed on him and not on the leaders, if MS had crashed into him on the restart Lewis could have been penalised.

So he was more focussed on staying out of trouble than anything else and so he uncharacteristically got caught napping vis a vis the leaders

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

The team messed up on the top gear ratios

The drivers messed up. Button messed up the start and re-start...and Hamilton messed up the re-start.

Hamilton's ratios were not too far off Vettel's.

Vettel's for sure were geared shorter than Alonso's.

That's (partly) why Alonso jumped the both of them (the other part being Vettel's excessive wheelspin when the lights went out)...Alonso's engineers geared Alonso for a Glory Start, in my opinion...but from what i've read the McLarens weren't geared poorly at all. From what i've read, McLaren's ratios were only slightly longer than Vettel's but not as long as Alonso's.

The difference between the McLaren and the Mercedes was the 'big wing' vs the 'tea tray wing' which is why Schumacher was able to keep Hamilton at bay down the main straight.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Have you changed your mind.........

No, and after watching the onboard this morning I've never been more sure of anything in my life

........I don't think Schumacher "simply cruised passed the McLaren"

Well here you go Ray. The onboard shows that Lewis never had a chance. Absolutely stunning top speed differential at the end of the straight.

Sure could have used that tow...........

........Or another 15 km/h.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

No, and after watching the onboard this morning I've never been more sure of anything in my life...Well here you go Ray. The onboard shows that Lewis never had a chance. Absolutely stunning top speed differential at the end of the straight.

Sure could have used that tow...........

........Or another 15 km/h.

First of all, thanks for the onboard!

Second of all, you're right about the "stunning" top speed differential.

Lastly, I am even more convinced than ever thanks to your onboard. Look at how far out in front Vettel/Alonso are heading to Parabolica at 8-9-10 seconds on the onboard video edit!

And, then see how close up Alonso-Vettel are together at the breaking into the first chicane!

A MASSIVE gap was left for Schumacher to sail into. It wouldn't have been there had Hamilton not lost Vettel heading towards the Parabolica because he would have been in Vettel's slipstream on the straight.

Shame that Lewis left himself exposed like that. Like a Sitting Duck! A double helping of tow would have made it different.

Lewis has subsequently lamented the fact that he wasn't in "Vettel's slipstream."

Anyway, I thank you for your video edit and your kind response. We'll just have to agree to disagree. That's the last post from me on this, then.

My sincere respect to you, Keke!

 

[KekeTheKing]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

But that's the problem Ray. You're wrong here.

I have never once said that Lewis didn't miss an opportunity to have a look at Vettel if he didn't lose a lot of ground on the way to Parabolica. He was warming his tires when Alonso bolted. Everyone agrees on this.

Where you've completely lost the plot is the fact that this in no way hampered him in his attempt to keep Schumacher at bay. A restart scenario was always going to present the Mercedes with overtaking opportunities while the McLaren's were always going to be on the back foot. I'm sure you've noticed that Button got passed by Webber on the restart as well.

Here's some hard data to chew on.

Crossing the timing line on the restart, Vettel was .481 seconds behind Alonso. Schumacher was .483 seconds behind Hamilton. They were equally positioned to make a pass, and yet only the Mercedes sailed by at the end of the straight.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ita-race-history.pdf

 

[teabagyokel]

I have never once said that Lewis didn't miss an opportunity to have a look at Vettel if he didn't lose a lot of ground on the way to Parabolica. He was warming his tires when Alonso bolted. Everyone agrees on this.

Where you've completely lost the plot is the fact that this in no way hampered him in his attempt to keep Schumacher at bay. A restart scenario was always going to present the Mercedes with overtaking opportunities while the McLaren's were always going to be on the back foot. I'm sure you've noticed that Button got passed by Webber on the restart as well.

There is one way that Hamilton could have stayed ahead of Schumi by the end of that lap. He could have been alongside Vettel and thus Schumi hit Vettel and eliminated both. Other than that, Lewis had no chance.

It was the same situation with Fisi and Raikkonen at Spa in 2009. Fisi was clearly in a faster package but Kimi's KERS was always going to be enough to see him through up towards les Combes.