Current Lewis Hamilton

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[Brogan]

*shakes head in disbelief*

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

But that's the problem Ray. You're wrong here.

Here's some hard data to chew on.

Crossing the timing line on the restart, Vettel was .481 seconds behind Alonso. Schumacher was .483 seconds behind Hamilton. They were equally positioned to make a pass, and yet only the Mercedes sailed by at the end of the straight.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ita-race-history.pdf

Keke, Alonso was geared longer than Vettel. We know why Vettel wasn't able to pass Alonso on the straight.

Vettel's gear ratios were shorter than Alonso's.

Why, then, are we comparing Vettel to Alonso?

Vettel's advantage to Alonso wasn't on the straight...it was in the bends like Curva Grande' (the turn at which he took the lead). Vettel's advantage to Alonso was in the higher downforce bits. Curva Grande', Lesmos, Parabolica.

The Mercedes was the one sailing by because it had almost no rear wing angle in relation to the McLaren. (And, it was likely geared longer.)

There was no comparison Ferrari-to-Red Bull on the straight v McLaren-to-Mercedes on the straight. Vettel's RB7 simply wasn't geared up (ratio wise) or configured (rear wing angle wise) like the Mercedes.

The RBR and the Mercedes were like NIGHT AND DAY in terms of Speed Trap readings and where on the circuit they were fastest.

I think you already know that.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Why, then, are we comparing Vettel to Alonso?

To illustrate with concrete timing data that in no way could someone reasonably argue that Schumacher caught Hamilton "napping".

If that was the case, then you could say that Vettel caught Alonso "napping", which defies logic, as Alonso was the leader.

What we have repeatedly tried to tell you is that Alonso and Vettel might have caught Hamilton "napping", but not Schumacher. Michael made an overtaking move that the situation presented. His car was ideally suited for a SC Restart scenario where a car with more downforce lost the opportunity to clear a gap in Sector 2.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...A restart scenario was always going to present the Mercedes with overtaking opportunities while the McLaren's were always going to be on the back foot...

It's a shame, then, that Hamilton didn't bother keeping up with Vettel and, instead, left himself at the mercy of the Mercedes.

You said "i'm wrong".

So when Lewis said the same thing in the link I gave you, was he "wrong" too?

 

[teabagyokel]

So when Lewis said the same thing in the link I gave you, was he "wrong" too?

I think it is possible to entertain the possibility that Lewis was wrong.

 

[gethinceri]

Ray, Hamilton said that the drivers ahead caught him napping, the inference from your comments is that Schu caught him napping. I think this is all a misunderstanding.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...Alonso and Vettel might have caught Hamilton "napping", but not Schumacher...

Keke, when Hamilton says this:

"At the restart Michael was on my outside, I was looking at him in my mirrors, then, all of a sudden, the guys ahead had gone, so I missed an opportunity to slipstream Sebastian."

You said I was wrong about the fact that Lewis missed out on Vettel's tow and that it was a punative miss.

Is Lewis "wrong" too?

Ray, Hamilton said that the drivers ahead caught him napping, the inference from your comments is that Schu caught him napping. I think this is all a misunderstanding.

It's a misunderstand and it's a Red Herring to get away from the one and only point.

The only point is that Hamilton wasn't alert enough and it cost him.

He didn't do himself any favours by letting Vettel be so far in front.

I just gave Hamilton's quote. That's the only quote I need.

I think it is possible to entertain the possibility that Lewis was wrong.

So Lewis is wrong and Keke is right?

That's a good one!

 

[KekeTheKing]

Classic tactic. Change the goalposts once you're beaten.

I've said time and again that Lewis was slow on the drop and allowed the front two to scamper off. Nobody's debating that.

As for the slipstream saving him. It wouldn't have. He would have just bounced off the limiter earlier.

This scenario is so clear cut that it really discourages me from engaging in further debate with you Ray.

 

[teabagyokel]

"At the restart Michael was on my outside, I was looking at him in my mirrors, then, all of a sudden, the guys ahead had gone, so I missed an opportunity to slipstream Sebastian."

It is interesting, Ray, that he doesn't actually say he could have kept Schumacher behind.

I missed an opportunity to slipstream Sebastian."

I have never once said that Lewis didn't miss an opportunity to have a look at Vettel if he didn't lose a lot of ground on the way to Parabolica.

So I think you cannot say:

So Lewis is wrong and Keke is right?

They're in agreement.

It seems that drivers have a version of papal infallibility when they agree with you, Ray, but are eeijits when they disagree with you.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I dont get this

So Lewis missed getting a tow from Seb? He was focussed on MS, thats why

If he had ignored MS and focussed on the guys in front, at the restart MS could have crashed into him by doing a Maldonado, result = penalty for Lewis, which he was trying to avoid at all costs

If Lewis got a tow from Seb, surely MS would have got a tow from Lewis, and dispatched him pretty quickly where Lewis was pinging off the limiter

I

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Classic tactic. Change the goalposts once you're beaten.

This scenario is so clear cut that it really discourages me from engaging in further debate with you Ray.

Keke, that's fine. It's soooo clear cut that even Hamilton found the need to mention Vettel's slipsteam.

It was always about my first post early yesterday which started off with Hamilton not being alert enough and missing out on Vettel's tow. That was the "goal post'

In the end the bottom line is this:

Hamilton wasn't thinking and let Vettel get away and left himself at Schumacher's mercy.

You say that Schumacher would have got him regardless whilst i'm saying that a helping of double tow from Alonso-Vettel would have given him some chance.

In the event, Hamilton fell asleep on his Safety Car-In lap management...and never gave himself a good enough chance to fend off Schumacher.

Hamilton messed up. Period. And that is the only point I made in my "goal post".

Another possible victory down the drain.

I don't want to debate this any further either.

 

[gethinceri]

I do. But I have important toenails to chew.

 

[MCLS]

Even if he was closer to Vettel, schumacher would still have overtaken him.............

 

[KekeTheKing]

You say that Schumacher would have got him regardless.

Yep. That's what we've been talking about this entire time. Only this morning have you tried to save face by claiming your over-arching point was that Hamilton let Alonso and Vettel get away. No Kidding! You think I need quotes from David Hobbs to tell me that. Get a clue man.

Faced with unassailable data and video footage you have turned this into another circular engagement, where any vestiges of your original point have long been forgotten.

You should have just watched the clip, recognized your error, and moved on to your next target. Now all you've done is prove to everybody that when your argument falls to pieces you simply cannot come to grips with that fact and you start making asinine statements that are designed to distract and deflect from the original debate.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Keke, I won't bother dignifying your last sentence.

My one original arguement was Hamilton wasn't alert enough and Schumacher ripped his race to shreds for it.

No intelligent individual in their right mind would use your data citing an RBR's configuration to a Ferrari's configuration on the Monza straight and then try to directly compare it to a Mercedes configuration in relation to a McLaren's configuration on the same straight.

Your end of S3/finish line data point differential between ALO-VET and between HAM-SCH isn't indicative of anything that an intelligent individual could use given the relative strengths and weaknesses of the 4 cars.

Vettel not getting by Alonso and Schumacher getting by Hamilton are entirely unrelated events and the differentials in each of the 4 cars gear ratios and wing angles don't make for any useful comparison.

Your video confirms that Hamilton was too far behind Vettel and Schumacher made him pay dearly for it and ruined Lewis' chance of winning the Italian GP.

It's your assumption that Shuey would have got him anyway...and it's only an assumption.

Not only did Lewis not win, he wasn't even on the podium and he only has himself to blame but his die hard fans will make every excuse in the book for it.

Tony Dodgins called them the "Hamilton Apologists" not that long ago.

 

[Brogan]

You're starting to sound bitter and desperate Ray.

What you have failed to comprehend is that everyone acknowledges that Hamilton screwed up the restart.

So less of the die hard fans and "Hamilton Apologists", eh?

 

[MCLS]

Would you like a ladder Ray? seems a big hole you've dug down there....

And you can't say that Hamilton would have won if he had have got past Schumacher earlier, no-one was going to challenge Vettel once he got past Alonso.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Keke, I won't bother dignifying your last sentence.

Good, because I stopped reading at this one.

It's always sad watching someone dig in deeper and deeper for a battle they've already lost.

Your contention that the half-second extra that Alonso and Vettel pulled on Hamilton into Parabolica cost him the race win is downright comical.

But considering the source........

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

And you can't say that Hamilton would have won if he had have got past Schumacher earlier, no-one was going to challenge Vettel once he got past Alonso.

How do you know Hamilton wouldn't have towed passed Vettel had he been right with him going into Parabolica on the SC-In lap?

Wasn't the McLaren faster in a straight line than the RBR?

Why didn't Hamilton line up Vettel like Vettel was lining up Alonso?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Your contention that the half-second extra that Alonso and Vettel pulled on Hamilton into Parabolica cost him the race win is downright comical.

What rubbish. Make up comments to run the other down. Is that what it comes down to?

Show me one line of mine where I said that.

I said Hamilton wasn't alert enough.

Again, how do you know Hamilton wouldn't have slipstreamed by Vettel (who was geared shorter by all accounts) had he (Hamilton) been right with Vettel at Parabolica on the SC-In lap?

You don't!

And you never will because Lewis wasn't bothering with Vettel like he ought to have.

Vettel was lining up Alonso.

Why wasn't Hamilton lining up Vettel?

The McLaren was faster than the RBR in a straight line was it not?

So, you don't know. And trying to run me down by fabricating a line won't help.