Jenson Button

Arguably the best ever driver in mixed conditions, all his wins at Mclaren have come in those conditions. His last race win in the dry came at the 2009 Turkish GP.

Button is known for his smooth driving style and is normally seen in must races doing one less stop than his rivals for tyres.

Buttons also know to be a bit of a practical joker and will take part in anything fun.

Since his debut in 2000 Button has won the majority of hearts in this country. But what is your favourite JB win?

Mine has to be Hungaroring 2006, in argubly a midfield team and he won the race in those mixed conditions to take his first win. I can remember James Allen been in tears almost and that was the first race Anthony Davidson ever commentated on.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

If McLaren could marry Jenson's abiltiy to bring the car home with Hamilton's prodigous speed, they'd have won the 2010 WDC and would now be in the process of hunting down Vettel this year. I mean seriously hunting down Vettel.

If Mclaren would give the boys a better car both Jenson and Lewis would likely be causing Vettel to misuse his finger

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

If Mclaren would give the boys a better car both Jenson and Lewis would likely be causing Vettel to misuse his finger

McLaren have, arguably, had the better/faster "race" car at China, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Germany, Hungary.

So the difference - after the fly aways at the start of the year - is Vettel's consistency v Hamilton's lack of similar consistency and Button's pace.

If Button was as fast as Hamilton he'd have more points...if Hamilton had maximized his chances at Monaco, Canada and Hungary, he'd also be much closer to Vettel.

Right now McLaren and Ferrari have RBR on the ropes. Vettel is eeking out his lead not because of car superiority..but because he's maximizing his chances (except for Germany where his team mate beat him fair and square but also because he had brake problems.)

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Red Bull have had the fastest car period for 2 years...Vettel has not really proven that he can out drive even Button in race conditions where he doesn't start in front due to his car being the best in one lap speed

We're not talking about 2009 or 2010. We're talking the last few months.

Vettel can actually put his car on Pole, Button can't seem to. Hamilton actually can as well. Who's fault is that.

The only people who are denying the undeniable fact that McLaren and Ferrari have caught up to RBR on race pace are the same people who want to "big up" Lewis.

These are the same people who want to trash talk Vettel's talent...for the exact same reason.

It's a free world...so we're all entitled to our view.

Lewis doesn't need bigging up. We know of his talent...Which is considerable. Shame that Lewis didn't collect more points at Monaco, Canada and Hungary, They were certainly on offer.

 

[Grizzly]

 

[FB]

And this is the Jenson Button thread so any more discussions about the relative speed of McLaren and Red Bull or Lewis Hamilton, unless within the context of the thread, will inevitably guide my finger towards the delete button.

Thank you

 

[Slyboogy]

Think you should look at last season again Sly - Button kept in the championship until second to last race by being consistent. Yes when he had his off days they were bad off days (Hungary, Korea) but he made less mistakes than the other challenges which is why he hung in there despite having less wins than most

True that, but he would have been a lot more behind if he had the reliability issues like the rest of them (bar Webber). He had more races were he was off the ball than the others,

 

[Cookinflatsix]

IMHO quali is where the Button conundrum really manifests

Imho there is no reason why he cannot drive the car as fast as it will go for one lap on demand, I think he is too ready with sob stories knowing that the general public will buy it and forgive him. He needs everything perfect before he can turn it on and max the car?

Forgive me but this is not an acceptable character flaw for a top driver, he could try much harder but has not really had to because he has always preferred the cushy route

Having said that he has improved in that respect, his quali recently was his highest since the Brawn days, he is learning from Lewis

 

[Bill Boddy]

It seems to me that Button's style is the reason that he struggles in qualifying. He is much less robust with the car than most drivers, he uses his fabled "smoothness" to gain his speed rather than taking it by the scruff of the neck and throwing it round the circuit. This results in him being slower to warm up the tyres, he frequently has not got the heat into them before they begin to go off.

He is also not helped by modern circuits with their propensity for plenty of high kerbs, he would have been more successful on the circuits where they did not exist.

 

[Quintessentially]

Arguably the best ever driver in mixed conditions, all his wins at Mclaren have come in those conditions. His last race win in the dry came at the 2009 Turkish GP.

.

What about the other races in mixed conditions where he didn't do too well? I think his recent race wins under those conditions are purely coincidental and doesn't merit this 'best driver in mixed conditions' tag . He's had shockers. A more fitting label would be 'biggest opportunist'.

 

[RasputinLives]

Which races in 'changable' conditions are you talking about Q? can't be Korea that was a pure wet race and not 'changable' at all.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

McLaren have, arguably, had the better/faster "race" car at China, Spain, Monaco, Canada, Germany, Hungary.

So the difference - after the fly aways at the start of the year - is Vettel's consistency v Hamilton's lack of similar consistency and Button's pace.

If Button was as fast as Hamilton he'd have more points...if Hamilton had maximized his chances at Monaco, Canada and Hungary, he'd also be much closer to Vettel.

Right now McLaren and Ferrari have RBR on the ropes. Vettel is eeking out his lead not because of car superiority..but because he's maximizing his chances (except for Germany where his team mate beat him fair and square but also because he had brake problems.)

But if McLaren had the car to allow Jenson and Lewis pole position in every race of the season so far, I think we would be seeing a much different story. There would be a lot more consistency than we are seeing in the McLaren camp and a lot less in the Red Bull camp. It's a lot easier to be consistent from the front than it is for the rear.

If it were all about having the best race car, qualifying would be pretty much superfluous. The evidence is in Vettel's performance over the season. Vettel hasn't won a race since Red Bull lost the ability to change their engine mapping between qualifying and the race, thus nullifying their unassailable qualifying advantage.

I think, therefore, that it is unfair to blame the relative performance of Jenson and his team-mate against Vettel on consistency. despite McLaren having a very good race car it's deficit over a weekend, until now, has meant that they have approached every race so far on the back foot. Now it is the huge points deficit which has put them on the back foot. Undoubtably, Red Bull's early advantage has left the McLaren boys, Jenson, Lewis and the team feeling that over the championship even their best efforts are somewhat futile. this means that they are now attacking the rest of the season, race-by-race in an attacking manner. Vettel, by contrast, doesn't even need to show up.

 

[Quintessentially]

Rasputin

They started on full wet tyres and ended with intermediates so factually speaking Korea was held in changeable conditions. Typically it was Jenson’s gamble to switch early to intermediates that probably ruined his race.
I don’t deny that he generally has good judgement under changeable conditions. He must’ve learnt something after 200 Grand Prix.

 

[RasputinLives]

But what other races are you talking about? I mean thats only 1

 

[Galahad]

And Korea needs to be considered in the context of the driver's championship standings at the time. It was probably the moment to take a gamble.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...I think, therefore, that it is unfair to blame the relative performance of Jenson and his team-mate against Vettel on consistency. ... Now it is the huge points deficit which has put them on the back foot. Undoubtably, Red Bull's early advantage has left the McLaren boys, Jenson, Lewis and the team feeling that over the championship even their best efforts are somewhat futile...

But this has more to do with Vettel maximizing his chances when he was able to. Webber certainly wasn't anywhere close in the first 1/4 of the year, was he...And Button's pace wasn't fast enough at that time (inrelation to Hamilton).

Further, Hamilton hasn't maximized his chances. Button hasn't either. Button lost a win at Monaco. Threw it away because he destroyed his tyres too quickly in the 2nd stint trying to pull away too quickly from Vettel (who was on the ropes because of the bad tyre stop).

Lastly, points at the begining of the year are just as valuable as late in the year. It's a championship, not a play-off or a tournament.

As per this:

Vettel, by contrast, doesn't even need to show up.

If Vettel doesn't show up, A Hamilton or Button or Alonso will win the championship because Webber in that current car won't win it for Red Bull.

Since Spain (inclusive) either McLaren or Ferrari have been faster in most of the races...but Vettel has extended his lead. That's not insignificant. Button, in comparison, began to bottle it in the 2nd part of 2009. Vettel's not doing that.

Vettel was interested in winning Hungary after Hamilton/McLaren lost it...but Renault admitted that the German's RB7 had engine issues. Often Vettel's KERS had been hobbled in the earlier races. Don't forget that.

 

[The Artist.....]

Button is not just fabled for being smooth, he is also very sensitive to the car - which makes him very good for feedback - but it also means that sometimes he gets spooked by the car! I believe it was Bahrain last year... He went out in qualifying, and believed that something had broken at the front of the car because it didn't feel quite the same - and crawled (relatively) back to the pits. What had happened was that the wind had changed direction - and made it feel that the downforce had disappeared from the front end...

A similar story is from Belgium in 2000. The very first time Button had been to the track, he had the confidence to state that the 100m board had been placed in the wrong place. The reporters (And other drivers) thought he was just making an excuse because he'd outbraked himself into the corner - but lo and behold, when it was measured, they had to re-site it!

 

[Quintessentially]

Off the top of my head, Monaco and Silverstone 2008 (I seem to remember him spinning his way out into a DNF). Let’s not forget Interlagos 2009 where another poor tyre choice meant he didn’t make it out of Q2.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Button is not just fabled for being smooth, he is also very sensitive to the car - which makes him very good for feedback - but it also means that sometimes he gets spooked by the car! I believe it was Bahrain last year... He went out in qualifying, and believed that something had broken at the front of the car because it didn't feel quite the same - and crawled (relatively) back to the pits. What had happened was that the wind had changed direction - and made it feel that the downforce had disappeared from the front end...

Shame the feedback didnt help Toyota whilst they had the biggest budget on the grid

The wind changed direction, and he was sensitive enough to sense this and therefore concluded that the car was broken and could not be driven fast. Some other less 'princess and the pea' sensitive type drivers might have carried on driving fast even if a wheel had come off, or they had lost 3 gears, or the undertray was loose, but Jense limps back to the pits?

 

[Josh]

Shame Jenson never drove for Toyota.

And about the limping back: if a driver thinks something is seriously broken, it's just stupidity to keep driving fast and risk an accident or more damage to the car. If something feels broken in qualifying you crawl back to the pits. It's better to have it checked and make sure it isn't (seriously) broken than continuing and possibly breaking your car, with no chance of a good qualifying position.

 

[RasputinLives]

Monaco 2008 he came home 11th in a very poor Honda it equaled his 4th highest finish of the season.

I'll give you Silverstone - although I don't think the word 'stinker' could be applied to the drive. Even in that race he made the correct choice to switch to full weather wets in order to gain positions before he spun off. A decision that proved correct as his team-mate came through to get 3rd in an awful car.

As for Interlagos 2009 Quali - its very easy to say in hindsight it was a poor choice of tyres but at the time(as can be seen by the drivers that went out in Q2 and Q1) it seemed the way to go. The only championship contender that took the risk of going another way was Rubens, and with the position he was in championship wise he had too! Jenson played it safe because he was trying to bring the title home and it went wrong for him. He fixed that the next day anyways.

You may think I'm nit picking asking you which races but you've stated (as many have before you) that Jenson some how 'lucks' into these results and whilst, as I stated earlier, I would not describing him as the 'best ever' in wet/dry conditions you have to admit the fact he obviously has a skill for them as he continues to score good results and these 'stinkers' you claim exist have you racking your brain to find them.