Is Rosberg really a better qualifier than Hamilton?

[Hamberg]

Ooh I'm gonna have to think hard about this, let me see



The person who wrote this article that went to extensive lengths to try and show all the possible reasons how Hamilton could possibly be beaten from mechanical to Hamilton making a mental choice.

Here's a controversial thought: They both did their damnedest to get pole every race and Rosberg over the season was better than Hamilton!

 

[racecub]

That would be me then, but you are incorrect, I didn't say Hamilton wasn't beatable. You don't change with the personal attacks do you.

Thanks to all the thoughtful and considered replies to my post, it's interesting to hear different views.
I just want to clarify that I wasn't suggesting that Hamilton was the better qualifier this season, clearly he wasn't, Rosberg was, I was at pains to point that out at the start of my opening post. What I was interested in considering was not the 'if' but the 'why'.
My suggestion was that towards the end of the season, in a bid to avoid disclosing data, Hamilton changed his set up last minute on the Saturday, possibly between quali 2 and Quali 3. He said that after Spa he did something different. It would be possible for his engineers to change the downforce settings to the rear and the front at this time in the garage, but it couldn't be done in a pitstop. This would cause understeer for Lewis in Q3 but would give him a better car for the race. This would account for the small errors and lock ups we sometimes saw from Lewis in Q3 later in the year. It ties in with what Toto dropped out and with what Lewis said earlier in the year.
It's a possibility. I realise there are other possibilities worthy of consideration.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

IMO Hamiltons quali woes are down to brakes. His driving style requires an ultra sensitive feel of the brakes and the CIs on the W05 don't give him that. That shortcoming is then exposed most when driving the penultimate Q3 lap where he would often lock up. Didn't he have to ditch his preferred Brembo discs earlier in the season? Also after Spa it looked like he started giving away some Saturday setup to his teammate in favour of Sundays and in an attempt to drive around the setup deficit he ended up overdriving - and with braking already a bit of a problem then its just a vicious circle. Get the brakes sorted and I'm sure Hami will be back to his qualifying best.

Once he had to switch to the Carbon Industry pads due to the disintegrating Brembo ones (around mid-season?) the amount of lock-ups did seem to increase.

 

[Titch]

There are fan boys ( and girls ). What are the opposite called, those who can't stand a driver ? Is there a name?

 

[Hamberg]

Not an attack, I drew a conclusion on the fact your entire post were reasons why Hamilton was beaten and none of it was because maybe on the day, Rosberg was better.

If you want me to give a balanced response, give a balanced argument.

Saying you're not taking anything away from Rosberg's achievements then proceeding to do just that is not balanced. You may as well have titled this "Nico won the trophy but Hamilton is better and here's why".

 

[Hamberg]

There are fan boys ( and girls ). What are the opposite called, those who can't stand a driver ? Is there a name?

Haters?

 

[Titch]

Not snappy enough.

 

[Hamberg]

Titch 'Mephistopheles'!

Back on topic - a lot of people consistently underestimate Rosberg and his ability to pull out the perfect lap, he was doing this at Williams when the car was poo poo. He is as good as the rest of them on qualifying day.
What's pretty obvious is that come distance and racing, Lewis is in a class that join a very select few.

 

[racecub]

Not an attack, I drew a conclusion on the fact your entire post were reasons why Hamilton was beaten and none of it was because maybe on the day, Rosberg was better.

If you want me to give a balanced response, give a balanced argument.

Saying you're not taking anything away from Rosberg's achievements then proceeding to do just that is not balanced. You may as well have titled this "Nico won the trophy but Hamilton is better and here's why".

Balanced response? A response dealing with the discussion rather than personal comments would be good. The conclusion you drew was incorrect. Rosberg was clearly better over the season at qualifying, I was putting froward some suggestions as to why. You can counter them or ignore them, not have a go because you disagree.

 

[Dartman]

Perhaps neither is quicker than the other, both are as fast, but the car may be set up slightly different for particular tasks. This will allow one of the cars to complete some laps in a slightly shorter time, possibly due to the drivers preference. This you must understand neither critcises either driver nor praises either driver, it's what is known as a neutral post, sorry

 

[Hamberg]

- My response was to your one sided post
- I stand by my conclusion
- I know Rosberg was better in qualifying
- None of your reasons 'why' were because Rosberg was just faster hence the first two bullets
- I can do what I want within the rules of the forum. I have countered your entire article and explained why in one succinct line.

Telling me I'm making a personal attack in all your posts doesnt make it any more true than your article.

racecub what sessions was Rosberg just faster with no other reasons 'why'?

 

[cider_and_toast]

racebub, while what you suggest is plausible, in reality I think it would be almost impossible for Hamilton to get away with secret set up changes in the latter stages of qually for more than one or at the most two occasions.

Firstly, carrying out a major set up change between Q2 and Q3 would require the engineers to fiddle with the car. I accept that a wing change here and a fiddle there may go unnoticed by Rosberg's side of the garage but whole sale changes to the car set up would attract attention. Also, what happens when mechanics swap about. I know the lead engineers stick with one car but I would imagine the teams of mechanics would all be specialists in certain areas (electrics, gearbox etc) and would swap about as needed. Are all of the engineers going to keep a secret?

Secondly, and almost impossible to hide would be the post race debriefs. Both drivers would have access to each others data then and both would notice if the other was making a big change at some stage to the set up. Remember earlier in the season when both Rosberg and Hamilton complained to the team after the race, that both of them had used settings they were told no to. That came from either their race engineers or from the car telemetry.

Nope, I think you're going to have to face this one, Rosberg was the quicker of the two in qualification and I believe as several others have posted in various threads, it came down to braking.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Anything to do with both drivers using different types of pads and the ones Hamilton used had more of a glazing on them which meant for qualifying they didn't perform as well as they did during the race once they had bedded in.

 

[Brogan]

Rosberg's qualifying overall was definitely better than Hamilton's this season.

Out of curiosity, I just totalled the Q3 times of the 15 qualifying sessions in which neither driver had a problem

Hamilton - 24:01.409
Rosberg - 24:02.687

Which works out to an average of 0.0852, or less than a tenth of a second difference per GP

I think it's fair to say there wasn't even a gnat's chuff between them.

 

[racecub]

cider_and_toast

That's certainly something to consider Lewis did have brake issues earlier in the year, he did switch from Brembos to Carbon industry after the disc exploded, I thought he'd gone back but maybe not. If indeed it were brakes causing him issues, wouldn't it be worse in the race under heavy fuel? And why the issues in Q3 but not in Q1 or 2?

If it is brakes, what do you think the explanation is for Nico being so much worse in the race than lewis despite in some races having a car with a .4 sec advantage over a single lap? There's no way Nico is that much worse, and he is clever. which brings me back to the fact that the cars are setup differently. Nico and Lewis are two very fast guys, Nico from the evidence the fastest of the two over one lap, so why would their race pace in identical cars be that different ? Nico couldn't keep up with lewis most of the second half of the season in races
The way Lewis spoke in that BBC interview I posted in the opening thread both guys and their engineer team look for advantage over the other but have to reveal it because of data sharing. Then Lewis said ' we did something different ' and we won. Obviously his engineers were involved in this, what could it be if not set up? Toto also alluded to it.

One final point. If it's brakes why now? Last year Lewis beat Nico in qualifying and he was new to the team then and experiencing worse issues with the brakes. It was much bigger problem for him then but he was the faster in qualifying.

Hamberg Off the top of my head Bahrain and Canada

 

[marksawatsky]

I race shifter karts and even I use a different set up for quali than I do in the race. A qualifying set up puts heat more quickly in the tires but is not good for race day because it punishes the tires over the long run. It's not a radical change, just a little more toe out here, a little less tire pressure there. It makes total sense to me that Rosberg would go with a very slight difference in qualifying and take the gamble that he can control the pace during the race. If Lewis goes with an ever so slight change in set up that favors race pace, he is also taking the gamble that he will be able to pass his teammate during the race. I think Lewis proves this with his tire management over the season, he often stays out a little longer and still has the pace.

 

[soccerman17]

Yes, yes he is. The results speak for themselves. May be skewed because Hamilton was trying to be the better finisher rather than the better qualifier. But Rosberg is the better qualifier.

 

[racecub]

He was the better qualifier this year. That's not even up for debate, as you say soccerman17 ,the results speak for themselves. But is he the better qualifier? That's a different question. And it requires looking into why he was quicker this season.

 

[FB]

All a bit academic as you don't win anything on Saturday afternoon.

 

[The Pits]

Although Nico is now the proud winner of the inaugural "pole position" trophy. Which I am sure will take pride of place on his mantlepiece.