How Is It Going?

[teabagyokel]

And what was it that allowed him to pass at turn 7? Do you know?

Was it the tyres? The DRS keeping him closer? Did he use KERS out of turn 6? Do we know anywhere?

I'm not advocating either of those ideas.

Neither KERS or Pirelli, while "artificial" are not "unfair" in your definition in post #21. Is it just possible that the man who passed both podium sitters to win the 2008 German GP, whose victory at the Hungaroring in 2009 can be put down to his pass on Mark Webber on lap 5, and who has extraordinary natural talent for overtaking, overtook someone.

If you have to analyse every pass within or without the DRS Zone as "artificial", then you are DOF_powering. In other words, you are reducing the credibility of all overtakes in an arbritary way, making an unfair comparison to past years which cannot be statistically maintained, and presupposing your conclusions before finding evidence.

 

[EvilWhippet]

I am not complaining, I am raising certain issues I have with the way things are currently regulated, and my own personal confusion I believe reflects the confusion of the early races, a factor which as I have already stated, will become less relevant as teams and drivers accomplish a better 'handle' on the current regulations, which I believe will be more interesting to me.

On the whole I have approved of these regulation changes and would sooner see a race like China or Malaysia than some of the below-par races we saw last year.

I just think they need ironing out a little, that's all.

I didn't mean you personally, more the general negative response, especially on the first page. We get buzz words in formula one sometimes and today it's "artificial." Straight after lap 56 of the Chinese Grand Prix it was "great" or "fantastic" and everybody enjoyed the race, now with time to think about it everybody was wrong and they infact didn't enjoy it? Some times I think when the sun comes out people prey for rain.

 

[RickD]

After reading through all these posts all I can ask is what do you all want?

If somebody had told you last year a car qualifying third, nearly a second off pole, would be off the podium after the last set of pitstops but would win without anybody falling off infront of him under 2011 rules you'd be looking forward to 2011 like a kid waiting for christmas! The facts are these regs have given us exactly what we wanted and all we can do is pick them apart? China was like the blueprint of a what a classic race looks like and all we do is complain? I just don't get it, sorry.

But it wasn't a classic, or if it was, it was a tad too plastic for me.

What it was, in all reality, is a contrived result.

Yes, I want to see cars overtaking, see someone coming from the back to get a podium, but what I really want is to see driver skill rather than some stupid wing opening to let one driver past another. I want to see hard tyres that can last more than 20 laps before falling off a cliff, I want to see less marbles on the track so that drivers can choose a different line when they want to or if the think it will make them slightly faster.

Maybe i'm asking too much, but it just seems far too plastic as it currently is..

 

[EvilWhippet]

Lots of the overtaking moves were NOT in the DRS zone, and most overtaking moves pre-DRS were in the same place, difference is we get 50 now instead of 5. There was nothing contrived about it, either, the man most people voted driver of weekend won which is as fair as it gets.

 

[KekeTheKing]

How was it not?

Because these are racers. Two, extremely fast, often uncompromising racers.

By the time Hamilton caught up Vettel, did I think he would pass him? Yes I did.

Could I see it ending in tears? Yes I could.

Lewis said after the GP that Seb is a supreme defender. He would know. These guys have been battling for what, 6-7 years now, including lower formulas.

And we needn't look any further than last year to see what can happen when Seb is being overtaken for the lead.

I guess the main thing I'm trying to get across in this thread is that China should not be considered the "New Norm" for a Grand Prix yet. The circuit lends itself to Overtaking more than any other modern circuit perhaps. Couple that with tire uncertainty and you're going to have fireworks.

 

[Enja]

Your complaint was that the advantage is focused in one zone and those are the two logical alternatives to that fact. If you have a third idea about how to modulate the DRS usage then let's have it!

I would be interested in a multi-use regulation, not a free-for-all. I'm not sure how it would work but I want to believe there is a better way of keeping the order close without designating one zone in particular in which currently an attempt at overtaking is almost expected than hoped for. I think a multi-use system could perhaps work, although I concede in effect it is just the same, only without the easiest maneuvers being completed. I admit I can come round to the idea that the DRS is an "anti-turbulence" device.

Neither KERS or Pirelli, while "artificial" are not "unfair" in your definition in post #21. Is it just possible that the man who passed both podium sitters to win the 2008 German GP, whose victory at the Hungaroring in 2009 can be put down to his pass on Mark Webber on lap 5, and who has extraordinary natural talent for overtaking, overtook someone.

So you're saying that neither KERS nor the fact that he was on newer tyres had anything to do with him overtaking Vettel? Am I understanding that correctly? Or have I made a mistake somewhere?

If you have to analyse every pass within or without the DRS Zone as "artificial", then you are DOF_powering. In other words, you are reducing the credibility of all overtakes in an arbritary way, making an unfair comparison to past years which cannot be statistically maintained, and presupposing your conclusions before finding evidence.

I approve of overtaking on a superficial level, in that yes, it is enjoyable to see cars close to one another, even if I do have reservations about it's sporting value.

At no point in this discussion, to my knowledge, have I described DRS as artificial. I don't mind artificial, if it is regulated in a correct way which makes sure the sport does not appear 'fake'.

Lastly, read my earlier point that I do accept DRS as a counter-measure to turbulent air, how does my opinion on that then influence how I perceive an overtake? What I saw on Sunday was overtakes on many different corners, I plain simply don't know whether that was due to DRS or not, and I don't know whether that was the tyre strategies, or whatever it might be. I find it hard to make conclusions based on three races where nobody has fully understood the current regulations. As a result, I find it very hard to accept a race as 'great' or 'terrible', because I don't know where things stand.

 

[Enja]

Because these are racers. Two, extremely fast, often uncompromising racers.

By the time Hamilton caught up Vettel, did I think he would pass him? Yes I did.

Well that's what I'm getting at here Keke. Perhaps my idea of formality is different than yours, but at the time I really did believe that Lewis would eventually get past him.

I guess the main thing I'm trying to get across in this thread is that China should not be considered the "New Norm" for a Grand Prix yet. The circuit lends itself to Overtaking more than any other modern circuit perhaps. Couple that with tire uncertainty and you're going to have fireworks.

And that is exactly one of the points I'm trying to get across, which currently going down like a bloody lead balloon.

 

[AlexM]

Your complaint was that the advantage is focused in one zone and those are the two logical alternatives to that fact. If you have a third idea about how to modulate the DRS usage then let's have it!

One thing to consider with DRS only being activated in a particular zone, is how much a following driver can lose out if they struggle with the exit of the previous corner (either due to car setup, poor line, whatever) - it gives an advantage to those who have a better setup for that particular section and a disadvantage to those who don't, no matter how fast they are around the lap as a whole.

I would suggest a certain 'allowance' of DRS around each lap (to be used at any point the driver chooses), which you only get if you meet some certain criteria - in effect a second KERs but with limitations. That could make it more interesting that the current set section.

 

[KekeTheKing]

To me, a formality was Alonso, Massa, and Hamilton going by Vettel at Bahrain last year.

I'm enjoying this discussion Enja. I was hoping you would indulge me yesterday after your post in the Overtaking Analysis thread, and now I know where you're coming from.

Catalunya should tell us a great deal about these regulations.

 

[teabagyokel]

At no point in this discussion, to my knowledge, have I described DRS as artificial. I don't mind artificial, if it is regulated in a correct way which makes sure the sport does not appear 'fake'.

Granted, and I meant fake.

Lastly, read my earlier point that I do accept DRS as a counter-measure to turbulent air, how does my opinion on that then influence how I perceive an overtake? What I saw on Sunday was overtakes on many different corners, I plain simply don't know whether that was due to DRS or not, and I don't know whether that was the tyre strategies, or whatever it might be. I find it hard to make conclusions based on three races where nobody has fully understood the current regulations. As a result, I find it very hard to accept a race as 'great' or 'terrible', because I don't know where things stand.

I tend to judge based on how much I enjoyed watching it. In the last two races, I've enjoyed it a lot!

 

[MCLS]

The true test of how good this season is will be the Spain/Monaco double header, both tracks are notorious for lack of action and if we do get exciting racing at these two events, it will be a fantastically good season.

 

[Brogan]

Monaco is not conducive to racing, even with KERS, DRS and marshmallow tyres.

I can actually see it being a bit of a safety-car-fest with all the failed attempts.

 

[MCLS]

Team Lotus best change of points?

 

[teabagyokel]

Monaco is not conducive to racing, even with KERS, DRS and marshmallow tyres.

I can actually see it being a bit of a safety-car-fest with all the failed attempts.

Yeah, I wouldn't go over the top calling racing a failure if there's no overtaking at Monaco. Too much armco to hold a motor race there!

 

[johnnoble1990]

Formula 1 is still about making the fastest car and getting it from A to B quickest, the only thing that has changed is how we get from A to B. The way i see this season is, it is all about making the good things better. The drivers, overtaking and strategy is now the main things we talk about. What could possibly be wrong with that.

 

[snowy]

This is my first post on this thread as I am truly in two or more totally opposing minds about the races I have seen. My head is telling me that it is motor racing, my heart is telling me it is infatuated and my gut is telling me that it can't digest what it's being fed.

Having watched the Chinese GP four times I can honestly say that the nature of 90% of the overtakes totally detracted from the 10% of truly skilled ones. There are several moves that should have been burned into my psyche and they are not.

The feeling of expectation as drivers closed in on their quarry, meant I spent long periods of the race on the edge of my seat suffering palpitations and a sense of impending doom. I am getting on a bit and this level of excitement is actually not safe! I might have to stop watching on medical grounds.

In conclusion
I suppose I can live with it, even if it kills me.

 

[teabagyokel]

In conclusion
I suppose I can live with it, even if it kills me.

There's something wrong with that, but I can't quite put my finger on it!

 

[Incubus]

I suppose I can live with it, even if it kills me.[/quote]

----------------------------------------

Aaaah, the Murray Walker legacy...

 

[FB]

Is the risk of the way things have gone so far that overtaking becomes a bit mehh? And have we been so starved of overtaking that now there is lots we are getting over excited?

The concern for me is that we end up with overtaking in F1 being as predictable as it is in NASCAR or MotoGP. Although that's probably being a bit unfair as most of the overtakes so far this season have involved considerable driver skill, both from the overtaker and the driver being overtaken.

 

[teabagyokel]

I have to say that with all the overtaking; there's been a not a lot of crashing into each other, which would be expected in 2010 etc.

Also no-one has been tagged at the start. Nice to see skill like that!