How Good is Sebastian Vettel?

[no-FIAt-please]

To be honest I can only think of 4 good overtakes by Vettel. Monza 2011 on Alonso, Yeongham 2011 on a subdued Hamilton, Catalunya 2012 (on Rosberg?) and Spa 2012 on Webber. That's rather telling considering how many times we've seen Alonso or Hamilton really go to town when coming through the field, of course part of that is due to his high average qualifying position but even considering that in 96 Grand Prix that is still a really small amount of memorable overtakes.

Vettel is very charming and likeable when he's winning. However should you see him on a weekend like Valencia 2012 he seems very petulant. Yes he's not had the experience of someone like Button or Alonso but he could do with adopting a different mindset, you can't win them all. That to me is his most dislikeable feature (along with what Il_leone stated above, how Vettel expected the team to stop Webber at Silverstone 2011).

 

[Slyboogy]

I think this season shows he's got all the attributes to show that he's a great driver and champion.

He's had the consistency, he's managed to salvage points whenever he can and he's put in some great drivers.

Things that I've noticed this season, he's aggressive, he keeps himself in there - Australia, passes Rosberg with a great move finished 2nd despite having a slower car, yes aided by the safety car, but he kept the margin to Hamilton.

When he was struggling with the car, he plays the percentage game by saving tyres in qualifying.

Some tend to forget, that like Hamilton, he's had some bad luck aswell.

His drive in Spa was in my opinion his best, came through the field, did several overtakes, and finished second, but yet it gets overlooked.

There's always the argument of "he's had the best car etc."

He started in a Toro Rosso for more than a season, in 2007 he was on for a podium, crashed into Webber, next race bounces back and claims 4th place result, Toro Rosso's best result so far, and this was in a Toro Rosso much worse than the 2008 car. 2008 got 5th in Monaco, pole and win in Monza, add to that, 10 point scoring finshes out of 18 races. Ever since that he's went from strength to strength.

Also, when he started to win, was when the qualifying rules got changed, so majority of the time the faster car would be on pole, back in the day when Alonso and Hamilton started, you could qualify 2nd-4th and yet still win the race due to different fuel loads and strategies, and back in 2007-2008 that happened several times.

His work rate is immense, he has some solid determination, like a younger Schumacher.

He's proved his worth. I think that the sport always has a villian, it used to Prost, went onto Schumacher, then Alonso, now it's Vettel.

Another factor, people seem to base Alonso and Hamilton to be the best due to one season, and that is 2007 where they were level on points, and the fact that people regard Alonso to be the best driver on the grid, elevating Hamilton to that status. That was a freak season, and I highly doubt if you put the two of them in the same team again, that the result would be the same.

 

[F1 Shift.net]

Vettel is a cucumber

 

[Quintessentially]

Not rightly so. The Ferrari engine and Mercedes engine are more powerful than the Renault one, so on a track where downforce is less.....

Yeah ok then

 

[KekeTheKing]

For TBY and FB. Red Bull's first Pole.

 

[FB]

Fernando didn't 'arf pedal the narwhal like Renault fast didn't he?

 

[Il_leone]

am I right in that Vettel has only won races starting either 1st, or 2nd and only once 3rd

he's not going to shake this tag until he wins starting from after the 2nd row on the grid

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Just looking at Vettel's Wiki to answer Il_leone 's question and got intrigued at the records he holds. Most of them are pretty well known, Most laps led, youngest race winner, youngest championship winner blah blah blah but the one at the bottom of the list stands out.

Shortest time elapsed before gaining a penalty 6 seconds 2006 Turkish Grand Prix (25 August 2006) (6 seconds into his career, for speeding in the pit lane)

There's a quiz question if I ever saw one!

 

[Il_leone]

Slyboogy

If you want to compare Hamilton to Vettel

Lewis in his career in F1 bar two seasons has been paired with world champions and he's beaten both drivers who were reigning world champions

That feat has only been achieved by

Alain Prost

Carlos Reutemann ( that is a good one for quiz) - name the drivers who have been car No 2 and beaten their world champion teammates over a season


Vettel has had as teammates

Heidfeld 1 race as sub
Liuzzi
Bourdais
Webber

Hardly people that set the world alight with only Webber being a consistent front runner as it were

 

[Brogan]

Vettel can only compete against his team mates, so the fact that he hasn't had any current or former world champions as team mates doesn't mean he wouldn't beat them or be competitive.

That's a similar argument to those who use "he's been in one of the best cars for his whole career" to beat Hamilton with.

 

[The Pits]

Something in him made Red Bull sit up and take notice, over and above many others.

The same way that someone took notice of Alonso, even while he was in a Mindardi.

The same way that someone took notice of Hamilton when he was 13.

The same way that someone took notice of Schumacher after one race for Jordan.

Hmmmm, there seems to be a pattern emerging....

 

[MCLS]

It would certainly be his best championship if he ultimately does win

 

[Quintessentially]

Once again when the cars are closely matched Alonso and Hamilton are up there. Webber being on pole completes the picture on why some would always consider him behind afforementioned two.

 

[The Pits]

I think we have Massa to thank for that.

 

[GermanF1]

Quintessentially
That's crazy. Vettel finished ahead of Webber in all their seasons as team-mates. He was the better man over most of the races they competed in. I'm afraid there is only one person rating Webber ahead of Vettel and that's you.
I might be wrong on that, so if you could provide any sources for your claim it would be nice.

 

[Quintessentially]

I have not rated Webber ahead of Vettel so hold your horse.

 

[Il_leone]

The Pits

He was backed by Red Bull and BMW before he got into F1 in his junior formulae

Brogan
Well you know he is going to have the same argument against him like his hero Schumacher until he does

Incidents like SIlverstone 2010 and 2011 don't help either when his team seem to favour him and he did not deny in Germany last year when he had probably his worst race making a serious of amateurish errors

 

[sobriety]

I've reappraised my opinion of him this season, the Red Bull hasn't been the fastest car (until the last couple of races), but he's been consistent enough to be in a position to take full advantage of it now that it is. If he wins the WDC, I'd say he's offically an all time great.

 

[Il_leone]

Yes if Vettel does win the title this season it certainly would the best of his 3..but the question will again be is if he can beat a world class teammate and how much of it is down to Newey

 

[FB]

Why, does Adrian drive the car by remote control from the pits? Sorry Il_leone I just don't get the criticism. It's about as sensible as the rubbish spouted about Lewis Hamilton starting his career in a race winning car.