Pre-Season Here we go again!

Refuelling Good or Bad?

  • Good

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Bad

    Votes: 21 70.0%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 7 23.3%

  • Total voters
    30

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Once again, instead of trying to address the current problems in Grand Prix Racing the F1 strategy group is looking at the possibility of bringing back refuelling for 2017. F1: Refuelling is back on agenda for chiefs

I'm not against refuelling on religious grounds but I think we all know that there will be some half arsed rule insisting that all teams make a minimum number of stops meaning that there then can be no tactical advantage gained by choosing an alternative strategy. Also, all the teams will fire up their strategy super computers and work out the optimum time for their team to stop thus avoiding that most inconvenient aspect of F1, the on track overtaking manoeuvre.

Here's an idea for the F1 strategy group, if you want to bring back refuelling make it optional but, at the same time, you need to give the teams a greater choice in tyres so that they don't have to stop at all if they don't want to. The tyres also need to be more durable (like those in WEC) where drivers can double or triple stint on one set.

The other obvious problem with refuelling is, of course, the safety issues. We know that teams will bend the rules to gain a tenth of a second and this has happened in the past with refuelling systems. I have no doubt that there will be teams who will make similar decisions this time around and we have the risk of drivers sitting in an inferno in the pit lane.

I really struggle as to what benefit the reintroduction of refuelling will bring, apart from more time for us to watch the cars being serviced in the pit lane. I know I've said this before but if I want to see a car having it's tyres changed I'll go along to Kwikfit on a Sunday afternoon, I don't need it beamed into my living room. Ditto refuelling, there's a Shell garage not far from where I live I can watch cars topping up their tanks any time I want.

The elephant in the room is the massively over complicated aerodynamic systems the teams build in to their cars which mean that cars can't get close enough to one another to overtake. The proposed solution to this was to make the cars rely more on aero grip. Really? I think there is now some back pedalling in this area.

I don't want cars to go back to how they were in the 60's, I can watch classic F1 races for that. But there has to be some sort of happy medium which allows the engineers to work their magic without making the cars so simple a teenager could (does) drive them.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
I would only be up for refueling if, like you said 'FB, its optional and there is a greater choice of tyres. Having it as a tactical element would be good aspect to racing. They won't do it like that as you say and this is all about giving more screen time to the fuel sponors and making the lap times tumble in order to look impressive.

As for the aero - it appears that F1 refuses to admit that its current aero regualtions is an issue when it comes to overtaking. Lets get this clear - aero doesn't have to be a barrier to overtaking. Look at GP2 and WSR 3.5 - lots of aero but cars can still follow closely. Its the type of aero they are running. It wouldn't even be that big a rule tweek and we probably wouldn't notice the cars looked any different.
 

Greenlantern101

Super Hero And All Round Good Guy
Contributor
Refueling did nothing for the racing but make it harder to follow. I also think it discouraged overtaking. Why risk an overtake when I can pass him by short fuelling. It's also inherently dangerous and expensive, all these and many more reasons is why it was dropped.

Talk of bringing it back is just more smoke and mirrors to distract us from the fact F1 cars can't overtake without DRS. If they want to mix things up then fix the bloody racing and bring back ground effect down force.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
However, another leading figure said: "It's just another boomerang. Many things are canned and then reappear on the agenda. I wouldn't read too much into it. It's nonsense."
 

canis

Race Winner
Valued Member
Toto: "Hey guys, you know that Ferrari are catching up to our engine performance? Well, we are definitely better at fuel economy than them, lets throw in another change for next year that will knock them further back and allow us to run lighter than everyone else..."

Or in other words, not going to happen unless everyone gets the same fuel economy for the same power level. This just puts those engines with greater power to fuel consumption further ahead :(
 

Olivier

Race Winner
Back in the day when Ferrari was dominating I remember people commenting how great the strategy had been and how exciting it made the race. I guess I have a different opinion on what makes a race exciting but refueling strategy does not.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
It's been a long long time since I've read so much common sense in how to fix F1. Well done Steve Johnson but I fear, like your F1 career, it's destined to not make it onto the top step.
 
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F1Brits_90

Race Winner
I saw this, earlier this afternoon as posted it on the 2017 rule changes as didnt seen this thread at the time. That i dont get why they want refuelling to return because team bosses dont want it, fans in the GPDA survey had a slight 50/50 55/45 yes spilt & it makes no sense on 3 grounds because in the bbc article it states that they have looked into this before. & just reeks of the people in charge who have run out of ideas. Despite ig stareing them in thd face & racing with them for 11 weeks a year. Less aerodynamics Iincluding them winglet's in gp2 + like brundle said ground effect just yo help cars get closer

Them 3 refuelling stats

  • refuelling was banned at the end of 2009 on cost and safety grounds.
  • Teams conducted an extensive investigation last season into the effects of a return of refuelling and concluded it would have a negative effect on the sport's spectacle
  • .They looked at data that showed the 1994 to 2009 period - when refuelling was part of F1, had the fewest number of on-track overtaking manoeuvres since 1980.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
No doubt:

1) The teams think they can make more money out of it

2) Bernie thinks he can make more money out of it

3) The FiA think they can make more money out of it.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
It's been a long long time since I've read so much common sense in how to fix F1. Well done Steve Johnson but I fear, like your F1 career, it's destined to not make it onto the top step.
The interesting thing is that virtually every one of his proposals have been put forward by CTA members, which just goes to show how knowledgeable a group we are!!!!

What I find truly appalling in the current situation is that, at the present time, my family is eagerly anticipating the start of the IMSA sports car season with the upcoming 24 hour Daytona race, which we will be attending. Yet F1 has become so dire and predictable that, for the first time since 1962 (as best as I can recall), we will not be attending a single F1 race, not even the season opener in our own country. Such a situation does not bode well for F1, IMO.
 

Westy

Pole Sitter
siffert_fan when is the 24hrs of Daytona? I don't want to miss it.

On the refueling topic - I am all about making the most out of the inevitably bad situation we may get. I can see a positive if refueling is brought back. F1 isn't going to get rid of HD tyres and that is a sore spot for many of us as it prevents the drivers from pushing to the limit as the tyres are the limiting factor on strategy calls. However, if we have refueling and HD tyres the fuel strategy can become the limiting factor. We could see short stints on soft tyres and low fuel to build a gap. Perhaps a team that has a speed advantage would use this strategy to build a lead or overcome a poor start or a race incident. Theoretically teams could start choosing their allotted tyres based off the best fuel strategy and not the best tyre strategy. This may not happen, and I could be wrong. However, this may be the strategy groups thinking.

I'm feeling like an optimist right now. I'm sure reality will set in soon and bring me back down to Earth.
 

Kewee

Race Winner
siffert_fan ...... I honestly never thought I'd even think this let alone say it. With IMSA Sports Cars, WEC and IRL I no longer need F!, in fact recent seasons have left me very disinterested. I will keep a half eye open to F1 in case things improve significantly though I doubt they will, a bloody shame when motorsports premier class is being upstaged. Really looking forward to seeing if Scotty can defend his Indycar title, even better if he can add another Indy 500 to his name.
 
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