Current FOTA on where we are now

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Interesting that they say they've only submitted 1 entry and not 9.
I'm not entirely sure that's consistent with the FIA rules on submitting entries.

So we still have another 10 days of to-ing and fro-ing before we see what's what.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I don't know - Howett is pretty unequivocal about a budget cap not being part of FOTA's plans.

We don't know the detail of their alternative proposals of course, it really depends whether Max is satisfied that they go far enough.

Whatever happens it looks likely that six teams who entered under one set of regulations (the new five plus Williams) will end up having to race under a different set. Which is another great achievement by all parties involved.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
GordonMurray said:
Whatever happens it looks likely that six teams who entered under one set of regulations (the new five plus Williams) will end up having to race under a different set. Which is another great achievement by all parties involved.
Which means FOTA will have effectively forced through exactly what it was trying to stop - a 2 tier championship with 1 lot of teams competing under 1 set of rules and the rest under another
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Well, no, I don't think so, I think FOTA will get what they want and everyone will run uncapped and without special dispensations; but it will mean that those six will have made plans based on the budget cap, in terms of sponsorship deals, and will probably have already begun car designs according to the more relaxed regulations that were published a few weeks ago - higher rev limit, four-wheel drive etc.

It makes it considerably less likely that we'll actually end up seeing any new teams next year, I would say.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
GM is 4 wheel drive really on the table? I don't doubt you but I just hadn't heard it mentioned before.

Can we look forward to ABS & active suspension as well?
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Well, the capped teams were to be allowed to have a KERS on the front axle as well as the rear, and to allow this the ban on 4WD would have been lifted for those teams.

There's no way a team could develop a competitive 4WD F1 system on £40m a year, though. Conceptually, there are doubts as to whether it could ever be made light enough to be useful, except in the wet.

Certainly no new driver aids in the form of ABS or active suspension. If you're interested in the details, the 2010 Technical Regs are here: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 4-2009.pdf

The pink sections track the changes from 2009. They'll probably change soon too!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
like GM syas, this could look like the end of any teams entering.

i have an odd thought, i am not at all sure the europeam commission will be happy with the teams blocking any form of capping. one could bring forward a case that the teams are now in effect disallowing other parties to join F1 by artificially keeping the entrance costs high and that seems to me a violation of european free market laws. after all, we have rules to lower the costs thus allowing teams to join.

another point: what does this mean if the new teams would arrive? i start to have the thought they might see FOTA as their natural enemy after all this misery and that would mean that just by allowing new teams, FIA breaks down FOTA. well, partly at least.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
bogaTYR said:
another point: what does this mean if the new teams would arrive? i start to have the thought they might see FOTA as their natural enemy after all this misery and that would mean that just by allowing new teams, FIA breaks down FOTA. well, partly at least.
I'm sure it suits Max and Bernie very well that any new teams would dilute the power of the manufacturers within the sport, and lessen the prospects of a future breakaway series.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Isn't odd that in the FISA/FOCA war of the early 80's it was the manufacturers who sided with FISA against the Constructors. Now it's the other way round. Max and Bernie looking out for the little guys, who would have thought?

I was never sure who won the FISA/FOCA war, Bernie I suppose as he got the commercial rights LOL
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
As I posted in this very thread 2 days ago.

I'm surprised it has taken the main-stream media so long to pick up on it and even more surprised why the teams thought it was a valid entry.

If this is true then it would seem the FIA and Max have once again out-manoeuvred the teams.
I can't see them not racing next season though. Even Max has to realise that F1 without 8 of the current 10 teams would be the death knell for it.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Perhaps this was all a cunning plan by Ferrari to make sure they win all the titles going next year (don't you love a good conspiracy).

Max must have pis#*ed his pants laughing when these documents dropped off the fax machine, especially with the FIA being able to set the late entry fee payment at what ever level they like. Game, set and match to the FIA, now FOTA has to come along "cap in hand"
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Well with the news that Force India secretly submitted a separate application in tandem with the joint one, it looks like FOTA is already breaking up.

Once again Max and Bernie will get their own way simply because the teams are unable to stand firm as a united body.

Come next Friday, 7 of the remaining FOTA teams may get a very nasty shock when they find their joint application is invalid, even though it was Max who apparently told them to submit a joint, conditional entry.

Once again, Max Mosley looks to have outsmarted the teams.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
Well with the news that Force India secretly submitted a separate application in tandem with the joint one, it looks like FOTA is already breaking up.

Once again Max and Bernie will get their own way simply because the teams are unable to stand firm as a united body.

Come next Friday, 7 of the remaining FOTA teams may get a very nasty shock when they find their joint application is invalid, even though it was Max who apparently told them to submit a joint, conditional entry.

Once again, Max Mosley looks to have outsmarted the teams.
Of all the people for FOTA to listen to, why Max Mosley? Its like Hitler taking advice from Churchill on his battle plans. (Although Churchill probably couldn't have thought of a battle plan worse than Hitler's!) I just don't get it.

If I were FI, I would be aligning myself with the Campos/Epsilon squad rather than FOTA - remember, FI are the little guys too! I think Ferrari and FI were very smart to avoid the joint application as such.

As for [bg=#BBBBBB]Mc[/bg][bg=#000044]Bmw[/bg][bg=#FFCF00]enaul[/bg]oyot[bg=#220055]rossobull[/bg]awn, I think they're currently described as daft at best and should have used the brains that are supposedly present in a top-class motor racing team.

When they see Lola lining up in their place, they'll not be happy!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
williams was not kicked out of FOTA

the team wanted to sign up for 2010 and cos this was against what the other FOTA teams wanted, williams temporarily left FOTA in mutual agreement. however, they could sign up again.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
and another twist! force india have explained what 'commercial interests' made them drop out of FOTA

"Basically F1, like in the case of any other business, relies on its bankers to provide ongoing capital support. As you would in any business, you go to the bank and demonstrate sources of income, the sources of income are from sponsorship and the disbursement of revenue from FOM arising out of the television income that you are fully aware of.

"Both these sources of income, which are sources of comfort for banks to lend money, would have been under threat if our entry was not accepted. So therefore we were legally advised that Force India might breach our banking covenants if we went down the route of a conditional entry and did not lodge an unconditional entry as always. All of this was completely shared with FOTA."

or to put it simple, the team needs the money from FOM to keep their cash flow going.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75942
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I'll support whatever Briatore doesn't want to do. Idiotic Italian moron that he is! In the time it takes him to get a TV company, QPR will have 5 managers. That's about a month, if you didn't know!
 
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