Formula One's most overrated driver

[FB]

I have to take issue with the suggestion that Vettel had it easy for all 4 of his titles. Two (2011 and 2013) of them I will grant you, his car was the class of the field but in 2010 Alonso was leading the championship until the last race and in 2012 both McLaren and Ferrari pushed the Red Bulls really hard. In those seasons he took the title in the last race and won by 4 and 3 points respectively. Hardly domination, and it's not Vettel's fault that Webber was a no mark so offered no real competition in the same car.

 

[The Artist.....]

MS has vastly inflated stats due to Punting Hill off in Australia, dubious launch control on his Renault and a huge spell at Ferrari where no real completion existed.... He was good, possibly even great but just how good is hard to weigh up when there was so much stacked in his favour.

I think that this is really problematic, on a number of bases:

1. In 1994, Schumacher was beaten, on the track, once all season. He was disqualified from Silverstone (he would have won had it not been for the 10 second penalty), disqualified from Belgium (which he won), and banned from Portugal and Italy. He was beaten at Spain, due to a reliability issue in the Benetton, and was only beaten on the track in Belgium.

2. In 1994, none of his team mates could get anywhere near him

3. In 1995, when Williams arguably had the best car, Schumacher's dominance was even higher.

4. He then chose to move to Ferrari, even though he allegedly had big money offers from McLaren...

5. He should have won the title in 1999 (but for his accident, he would have won).

6. The success at Ferrari was largely due to the team of people he brought with him.

If anything, the years 1996-1999, when he could have been in any car he wanted, were the lost years for Schumacher - where he over-achieved for the car that he had!

 

[Il_leone]

I have to take issue with the suggestion that Vettel had it easy for all 4 of his titles. Two (2011 and 2013) of them I will grant you, his car was the class of the field but in 2010 Alonso was leading the championship until the last race and in 2012 both McLaren and Ferrari pushed the Red Bulls really hard. In those seasons he took the title in the last race and won by 4 and 3 points respectively. Hardly domination, and it's not Vettel's fault that Webber was a no mark so offered no real competition in the same car.

I think the issue with Vettel is he gets rattled if the teammate is consistently beating him and he also seems to fight everyone - the team , the stewards when all is not going well

 

[Il_leone]

Vettel I think is a bit like Button ...when the car is to his absolute liking he was almost nailed on to be pole and can lead comfortably.... when the car is not he seems to be note quite on form and struggle. All 4 of his championships owed to the fact that when the car was to his absolute liking in terms of set up and handling he was at his most devastating driver especially back end of 2010 and 2012 when Red Bull seemed to have found something in the car late season and they do seem to work for Vettel better than Webber

2014 - where he was winless before the season started he already complained about the car (and the rules) were not to his liking and it showed in his results for that season

 

[Il_leone]

Another name that springs to mind is Jean Christophe Bouillion (JCB) as he was known. F3000 champ and tester for Williams matching pace to Coulthard and Hill... then drives the lemon Sauber Ford up against HH Frentzen. Comprehensively thrashed and was dropped before the season finished and never seen again

 

[Il_leone]

I might be harsh but Nelsinho given he was spoon fed by his Dad into F1. His Dad thought associating with Flavio was good for his career even pressing him to replace Heikki . No one off course factored in that Alonso was Flav's No 1 when he declared himself available to return in 2008

 

[Galahad]

Esteban Ocon.

 

[The Artist.....]

After today, I tend to agree about Ocon - he’s being humiliated by Ricciardo. If Wolff wants Ocon to race, he should give him a seat at Mercedes.

Next season, having Alonso and Vettel at Renault should be fun to watch!

 

[Johnny Carwash]

The year out for Ocon doesn’t seem to have done him any good at all.

 

[Il_leone]

After today, I tend to agree about Ocon - he’s being humiliated by Ricciardo. If Wolff wants Ocon to race, he should give him a seat at Mercedes.

Next season, having Alonso and Vettel at Renault should be fun to watch!

I think we will wait until end of season to judge Ocon as he was started 5th last week but retired

 

[Galahad]

He was slower than Wehrlein, then slower than Perez, then was just about a match for Perez in his third season, so this is season four. Plenty of more talented drivers would have appreciated having four years before being ready to be judged. He's a lucky, lucky boy, to my mind.

 

[The Artist.....]

Galahad - for me, he is only where he is because of external support. That being said, the only reason he ended up not racing for Renault last season was Ricciardo’s shock move, that created the merry-go-round...

At Farce India, Ocon and Perez just constantly crashed into each other. Since Stroll joined, how often has Perez hit Stroll? It’s clear where the problem was in the team. Perez had been hot-headed early in his career, but Ocon just couldn’t stop hitting him.

 

[Jimbob]

Montoya - believed his own hype too much and thought McLaren was gonna help him become champ but it really never got going . It was a spectacular fall from what he achieved with Williams

Agreed. I think he had the potential and pedigree to do much better but the arrogance he brought to F1 got in his way.

 

[Jimbob]

I'm going to defend Jacques Villeneuve here. His name has come up several times on this list.

He was a big star in America and the reigning Indy Car Champion when he arrived alongside Damon. People may not remember but this was probably when Indy Racing was globally at the peak of its popularity. Before it killed itself with the split in 1996.

So what did Villeneuve do when he arrived in F1? Stuck his car in pole and, but for an oil leak almost won his debut GP, ultimately finishing 2nd. He won his 4th ever GP and went on to win the title the following year. I think he did the job he was paid to do and fully lived up to the expectations place on him by his team.

Yes it all quickly went wrong with BAR but why has Villeneuve made it in the list when Emerson Fittipaldi, who's career followed almost exactly the same profile of World titles followed by joining a team built around him, doesn't get a mention?

Finally, Villeneuve has succeeded in a range of Motorsports including winning the Indy 500 and a 2nd at Le Mans.

Being a full time Charlie is different to being overrated.

All well and good but this is about his F1 career.

 

[Il_leone]

All well and good but this is about his F1 career.

Which is why Montoya is here as overrated because he achieved little for his takent and ego. Jacques Villeneuve may have been world champ but his fall from grace was just as spectacular if not more so in F1

 

[Jay]

It’s the media hype around Max Verstappen and the sycophant of a boss Christian Horner that makes him overrated. The constant banging on about how young he is and that he is somehow a driver that any teammate will loose to automatically. The way that he is held up as a World Championship in waiting but has never won a single seater World championship. He is just a petulant little oik who needs to be bought down a peg or two because he has this attitude that he is almost entitled to be World Champion.
Put him up against Lewis Hamilton for season and then he would probably crumple in a heap as he is neither consistent enough, or has the gumption to see the bigger picture of how to win a World Championship.Beating Daniel Ricciardo, Pierre Gasly and Alex Albon doesn’t make you great.

Im glad I got that of my chest.

Well couple years later still that opinion?

 

[RasputinLives]

I've travelled back in time from 2023 so I can say Mick Schumacher.

You all knew I was a time traveller right?

 

[F1Brits_90]

You all knew I was a time traveller right?

i think the emotion had hoped that he would be decent but i think we all realised early on in magussen 2022. his F2 form in the 1st year was the real schumacher & not the 2nd year. if he was mick muller then he wouldve ended up in Formula E

 

[RasputinLives]

I wrote the original post back in 2020.

 

[F1Brits_90]

I wrote the original post back in 2020.

i know, i was saying that i think that like senna we had hoped for better, but if we had taken off the rose tinted spectacles wouldve been with you