Current Ferrari

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Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
How very dare you! Chances are they are all cheating just Ferrari are less good at hiding it.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Personally, I would like to see a TRULY independent group look at all of the teams. It appears to me that Mercedes and the FIA have a relationship muck akin to that of Boeing and the FAA.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
it doesn't help that Ferrari straight line advantage from mexico & previous 6 wasn't there in Austin, on the same weekend that teams ask for fuel flow directive. that might be 2+2=5 but also the flames have been fanned by Verstappen “Oh that’s not strange. Well why do you think? You can fill it in yourself,”


I wouldn't put past them because as we all know when you have a winning car, advantages will always be questioned there is a reason why nobody has protested Williams this season, they could have ran an "illegal" car like some teams on the grid are suggesting Ferrari have been. but because they are way off the pace. no one cares. but every winning team has been accused of something.
Benetton was traction control,
McLaren was the extra brake pedal
Ferrari was that they got bespoke bridgestone tyres,
Renault had the mass damper
McLaren was copied Ferrari in 2008,
Brawn was double diffuser,
Red Bull was too many to list from traction control, exhaust blowing, flexy wings/floors & trick suspension etc
Mercedes was that the forbid customer teams to race them & gave them lesser engines
 

Bernoulli

Spectator
Everyone is talking about Ferrari cheating but F1 wouldn't be in the state it is if the FIA had let itself be pushed over by Mercedes who were pushing the V6 engines whilst quietly developing them in the background. Plus the stupid rule that every team only had a limited number of tokens for a season to develop their engines which manifested Mercedes' position at the front for 3-4 years as everyone else was playing catch up. Complete and utter b*llsh*t.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
as discussed in recent races. mercedes the last few years have won because they are most organised, make the fewer mistakes & have a very consistent driver. ferrari couldve won 10 races they won 3. couldve won the last 3 drivers titles thats your problem nobody would be talking about the nonsense engine advatange as that ended at start of 2017
 

Bernoulli

Spectator
I know what you mean. Things were so much simpler when it was just Ferrari who were consulted and able to veto rules.
It wasn't just Ferrari. Williams and McLaren also had their say. Except for 2002 and 2004 Ferrari never had the upper hand against the oppositions like Mercedes did from 2014-2016, 2019.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
as discussed in recent races. mercedes the last few years have won because they are most organised, make the fewer mistakes & have a very consistent driver. ferrari couldve won 10 races they won 3. couldve won the last 3 drivers titles thats your problem nobody would be talking about the nonsense engine advatange as that ended at start of 2017
.....and they spent $700 million on initial hybrid engine development....
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
it doesn't help that Ferrari straight line advantage from mexico & previous 6 wasn't there in Austin, on the same weekend that teams ask for fuel flow directive. that might be 2+2=5 but also the flames have been fanned by Verstappen “Oh that’s not strange. Well why do you think? You can fill it in yourself,”


I wouldn't put past them because as we all know when you have a winning car, advantages will always be questioned there is a reason why nobody has protested Williams this season, they could have ran an "illegal" car like some teams on the grid are suggesting Ferrari have been. but because they are way off the pace. no one cares. but every winning team has been accused of something.
Benetton was traction control,
McLaren was the extra brake pedal
Ferrari was that they got bespoke bridgestone tyres,
Renault had the mass damper
McLaren was copied Ferrari in 2008,
Brawn was double diffuser,
Red Bull was too many to list from traction control, exhaust blowing, flexy wings/floors & trick suspension etc
Mercedes was that the forbid customer teams to race them & gave them lesser engines
Yes, but a lot of the cases you listed above actually were cheats or at least technology that was later banned.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Bernoulli 2014 - 2016 that's obvious they were so far ahead it was boring. but 2019 really, is this the same year that Leclerc will very likely win the pole position award with 7, Mercedes & Ferrari both had 9 pole positions. the year ferrari shouldve won 10 races but only won 3

Yes, but a lot of the cases you listed above actually were cheats or at least technology that was later banned.
but at the time it was alot of rumours & denial. but then as time went on people admitted that they werent going mad & were correct
 
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Bernoulli

Spectator
Bernoulli 2014 - 2016 that's obvious they were so far ahead it was boring. but 2019 really, is this the same year that Leclerc will very likely win the pole position award with 7, Mercedes & Ferrari both had 9 pole positions. the year ferrari shouldve won 10 races but only won 3



but at the time it was alot of rumours & denial. but then as time went on people admitted that they werent going mad & were correct
Qualifying pace doesn’t always equate to race pace, we have seen that this season. Ferrari in the first half of the season had trouble getting their tyres up to temperature and still they are much harder on the tyres than Red Bull and Mercedes.
They should have won 10 races if it hadn’t been for Mercedes.
 

Bernoulli

Spectator
It always easy to judge from the outside and in hindsight but strategy errors, driver errors etc. are more common when one is under pressure because every little bit of performance must be squeezed out of the inferior package.
We’ve seen Mercedes turn up the wick when needed more often than not. In Ferrari’s case it’s been clear mostly from FP1 onwards whether they’ve had the pace on a specific weekend.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
It always easy to judge from the outside and in hindsight but strategy errors, driver errors etc. are more common when one is under pressure because every little bit of performance must be squeezed out of the inferior package.
We’ve seen Mercedes turn up the wick when needed more often than not. In Ferrari’s case it’s been clear mostly from FP1 onwards whether they’ve had the pace on a specific weekend.
I am sorry.....but there were a lot of errors made by Ferrari this season. They were so far behind because they put themselves so far behind. Look at the cycle of the season. They were dominant in testing. Now that was probably a case of the right tire at the right track at the right temperature. But, still in the early part of the season, they were certainly competitive to Mercedes. The team threw away at least one race early in the season due to a strategy mistake...and then Vettel threw away a lead under pressure from Hamilton at Canada. After that, they seemed a little lost for a while. Certainly Vettel was. And then suddenly, they found a power boost on accel out of the corners by I gather interfering with the fuel flow monitors. Not sure if this is the case (not that I have heard any other plausible explanation), but if it was, it is certainly a cheat in both spirit and actuality. Still it was a good enough cheat to garner them 6 poles in the row. They could not turn that into anywhere near 6 wins as F1Brits_90 points out.

Now, overall, Mercedes may have had an edge through the season, especially in variable conditions and variable weather. That is what I see. But the advantage was not so significant that it begins to explain the 14 Mercedes wins (soon to be 16?) to Ferrari's 3. Ferrari made a shit-load and half of mistakes in engineering, car prep, team strategy, team management and by their drivers. This lead to the huge gap in performance. On the other hand, Mercedes ran a very clean and competent program with only a few mistakes during the year, and Hamilton certainly ran one of his better seasons.

I'll be honest with you....I think a major part of the problem is management. This mean Binotto, who I was suspicious of from the start (and I think I actually posted that). Promoting a talented engineer to management often weakens the engineering without a corresponding strengthening of management. Having spent the early part of my career working in engineering companies (i.e. General Dynamics. among others), I could certainly regale you for hours about horror stories of engineers as manager. While I was working at General Dynamics, the production line was ordered shut down by the U.S. government twice in four years due to major production and quality control issues. So....I do have a bias, and that bias led me to question from the start the choice of Binotto as the team manager, and so far.....my bias has been solidly reinforced. Nothing like having your prejudices confirmed.

Anyhow, I suspect Binotto is not long for this world. They will probably keep him in place for 2020...but unless Ferrari can come up with another very clever tweak next year....and I sure that Mercedes will overpower them again. I mean, Mercedes is loaded with money, stocked full of good engineers, competently managed, and has one of the best drivers in the world leading the team. This is a hard combo to beat.
 
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