Ferrari to protest Vettel for overtaking under yellow flags?

[Olivier]

I wonder where is all this coming from? Was it Alonso's tweet or there's something else. I couldn't find any official statement (or otherwise) that points in this direction.

By the way, the tweet can also be translated as "I don't believe in miracles. I make the correct rules my miracles". IMO it makes more sense if they are really wanting to protest Vettel's overtaking.

 

[Lewywo4]

Sebastian could have a problem, because he obviously ignored the 2 yellow lights located on each side of his dashboard, which comes on and alerts him when he enters in a yellow flag zone.

 

[Speshal]

By christ that bloke is boring but he has a point regarding the last pass (although I thought that was the only one under contention anyway) you can clearly see the lights on the dash are still yellow until after the pass.

 

[Greenlantern101]

Wow just woke up to this mess on the radio. It looked pretty clear at the time that he over took under yellows. I have looked again at it videos on you tube and I can't see any green flag. I can't believe Ferrari want to win like this, but I guess its what they work for all year, its their purpose for being. To loose it by someone cheating must be worth an appeal. But Wow just watch F1 go..

 

[mnmracer]

Well, there must be a flag being waved at that marshall post, regardless of color.

If the yellow zone conintues, yellow must be waved as a repeat there.
if the yellow zone ends, a green flag must be waved to signal the end of yellow.
Basic marshalling rules on any track.

If you don't see green, but you don't see yellow either (I sure don't), you know your eyes are not giving you enough information to judge the situation.

 

[Road of Bones]

Interesting that Autosport aren't reporting anything about this at the moment...
If Ferrari successfully appeal, and Alonso is crowned WDC, then the history of F1 will just have one more contraversial chapter to add to the likes of Suzuka '89, Adelaide '94, Indy '05, the Michelin tyre width debacle of '03, Spygate, Liegate, Wing-gate, and Nazi-spank-orgy-gate...

 

[Dizzi]

Oh dear, I think we need an emoticon for a can of worms added!
Looking at the footage the most compelling part to an illegal overtake must be the yellow lights in Seb's cockpit but a championship decided in a court has a bitter taste.
Whoever gets the WDC now it will be tainted, on a lot of forums Seb not in wrong = FIA help to Red Bull (again) & Seb in the wrong & penalised = sour grapes & Ferrari International Aid (again)
Of course what most people will forget is that both drove superbly through a whole season & whoever the WDC goes to it will be for merit over an entire year not one race just as people forget Lewis drove well in 2008* not just the last corner of Brazil.

*except Canada!

 

[Kewee]

Interesting that Autosport aren't reporting anything about this at the moment...
If Ferrari successfully appeal, and Alonso is crowned WDC, then the history of F1 will just have one more contraversial chapter to add to the likes of Suzuka '89, Adelaide '94, Indy '05, the Michelin tyre width debacle of '03, Spygate, Liegate, Wing-gate, and Nazi-spank-orgy-gate...

Nothing on the Ferrari website either.

 

[Hamberg]

Kewee you must be so super excited that Alonso is still in with a shout!

Has ignorance/confusion ever been a mitigating factor? Button in Japan '09 was penalised for speeding under yellows, his defence was that he didn't have enough time between the yellows being set and reaching the zone to slow down (turned out to be 37 seconds) but that was his argument and it was ignored. Anyone know how long the yellows were up? And does a marshals flag take precedence over dashboard info?

 

[jez101]

Here is an image from the Pit Lane Feed at the exact time that Vettel was "passing" JEV. It's pretty clear that "Sector 4" was still under yellow, and that the DRS was duly disabled.

The DRS was not deactivated until the leaders were going through T12 at the end of lap 4. On screen at the same time is the timing strip showing that Vettel is past Vergne and also Glock. There is no way that pass happened while DRS was deactivated.

Two things I can say with great certainty having watched it are 1) there was a green flag from the marshall as Vettel went past on lap 3 and 2) DRS was enabled on that straight during the time the pass took place.

Both strongly suggest that racing was allowed in that sector.

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/2012...-and-race-discussion.5704/page-28#post-171230

For me all these factors already point to a green flag still being waved on lap 4 and as Brogan 's link shows there is definitely a flag being waved I am very happy to assume that said flag was green.

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/ferr...ng-under-yellow-flags.5780/page-2#post-171514

 

[Greenlantern101]

Dizzi I agree its the yellow dash lights that will be his undoing if they appeal. In the onboard video you can clearly see the yellow light at the right side of the track and the yellow lights on his dash. Then he passes the TorroRosso still with the yellow lights on his dash. Then he passes a green light on the left at the same instant the yellow lights on his dash go out. I have watched this many times now and between the yellow and green lights I can see no marshal waving a flag.

It seems clear cut as it did at the time during the race. If action had been taken at the time this mess would not be unfolding now.

 

[Hamberg]

So the green flags/lights were there but don't take effect until he reaches that point (much like the safety car line) in which case he overtook under yellows and only entered the green zone once the pass was completed, just.

Oh dear.

 

[jez101]

Forget the lights Greenlantern101 , this story hinges on the green flag from the marshalls post which is after the last yellow light and before the green light. If a green flag is (still) being waved there on lap 4 (like it was on lap 3), then Vettel's pass is ok.

 

[snowy]

Why aren't they protesting the overtake that Sebastian actually did make under yellow flag conditions?

 

[Brogan]

The dashboard lights are a driver aid only and irrelevant.

Flags supercede them.

 

[pirateplunder]

Trackside flags and lights take precedence over on board driver aids. If that flag being waved just before the overtake was made was indeed green (even if it was a mistake by the marshal) he's in the clear. I think its impossible to tell from the video, I wonder if it can be seen from the car either? Probably need to go through the on boards from all the other cars ahead to see if a colour can be seen.

Presumably the flag shouldn't have been green, but what's the chance that Marshall can remember which flag they waved as SV went past on lap 4?

 

[Brogan]

For those who haven't seen it, I have encircled the green flag here, which is before the lights board.

For the avoidance of doubt Flag > Lights > Dash

 

[Kewee]

Hamberg.......To be honest I would have loved to see Alonso take the championship, though not like this. You can't blame Ferrari for protesting if they do though. Red Bull and Vettel have their titles, but it's hard to ignore their indiscretions during the season. On three occasions they were required to make changes to their cars for pushing the boundaries of the regulations too far and of course there was the issue during qualifying in Japan when Vettel impeded Alonso but only received a reprimand. Very unusual to be judged to be wrong, hence the reprimand, but not have the normal 5 grid drop penalty applied.
It's true I've never warmed to Red Bull or Vettel, dislike is too strong a word. Even now they're talking about other teams dirty tricks. They should be reminded they were the ones pushing the regulations beyond there limits, and whenever things don't go Vettel's way it's always someone else's fault. There seems to be an underlying arrogance that turns me off.

 

[snowy]

Ferrari haven't actually protested though, have they?

"Media claim Ferrari might protest"

 

[mnmracer]

Greenlantern101
How do you suppose digital dashboard lights are turned off on the basis of a manual-only waved flag? Aside from the fact it's probably been mentioned and referenced now 42 times that flags take precedence over dashboard-lights, it's simply an impossibility to turn them off with a manual flag.