Ferrari to protest Vettel for overtaking under yellow flags?

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I thought this deserved a thread of its own.

Andrew Benson said:
Ferrari trying to establish whether there is enough evidence to protest Sebastian Vettel for overtaking under yellow flags. Story soon


We have discussed it on the race thread already but as far as I am aware, the pass has been ruled legal by a marshall due to what are known as "floppy markers" which are between the actual markers.

Anyway, I suppose we'll learn more soon.

Is there to be a final twist to the season?

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/273903422347018240
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Just what you want isn't it? The championship to be decided in Paris, the French don't even have a GP..:p

Seriously though if they do appeal and they win it will put Vettel out of the points because the race finished under a safety car and a time penalty will be more than enough to do that, obviously giving the championship to Alonso...
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
...Even if there wasn't a green flag, I bet that there will be one that is "found" on the video footage.... I would be very uncomfortable if Alonso wins the title in the courtroom....

CGI is very good nowadays...
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
There was a green flag from that post the lap before. What happens now? Red Bull go through every race in 2012 looking for Alonso doing something naughty? Give me a break! Accept defeat and move on. There's nothing worse than a bad loser.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Here's the BBC article on it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

Alonso has posted a cryptic message on the social networking site Twitter that appears to be a reference to the situation.

He wrote in Spanish: "I don't believe in miracles. I make my miracles out of the correct rules."

Alonso is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.

However, the governing body does not need a protest from Ferrari to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.

Not that the FIA need Ferrari or Alonso to tell them to investigate, they are obliged to do so.

Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."


Here's the get out of jail free clause...

However, on the footage from Vettel's car it is not possible to see clearly the marshals' post that is situated on the inside of the track at the exit of the pit lane - after the yellow light at Turn Three.

It is possible that the marshal there was waving a green flag. If he was, the pass on Vergne would be legal and the result would stand.

FIA: So Mr Marshall, were you waving a green flag?
Marshall: Yes.
FIA: Thought so, case dismissed.
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
Take the championship out if the situation. If Vettel was in the wrong (overtaking under yellow flags) then a penalty should be applied. The article posted says that there is seemingly roughly a week to question decisions made. Therefore if Ferrari have a case to argue for, appeal within roughly a week, and are proved right, then it seems fair that a retrospective penalty should be applied to the driver in question in the wrong (in this case Vettel). Although it is interesting that the FIA can act of their own accord (regulation and video in the article).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
 

ZakspeedYakspeed

NeverUnderestimateThePredictabilityOfStupidity
Valued Member
Hmmm.... so... imagine Ferrari take this to Paris... and after painful minutae evidence SV is found to have made a pass under yellow... and a 25s penalty is imposed... and since the race ended under caution he drops down to 216th place...

Would leave a bitter taste ... very bitter ... if that was to occur...
 

sushifiesta

Champion Elect
Contributor
What should happen:
Ferrari: Oi, we think Vettel overtook under yellows.
FIA: Ok, we'll investigate.
*3 hours later*
FIA (option 1): Nope, there was a green flag.
FIA (option 2): Yep, drive through penalty for Vettel, Alonso is champion.
Ferrari (option 1): Boo
Ferrari (option 2) : Yay

What will happen:
Ferrari: Oi, we think Vettel overtook under yellows.
FIA: Ok, we'll investigate.
*1 month later*
Ferrari: ???
FIA: :tumbleweed:
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
My guess is the outcome will be the same as in 2007 when McLaren protested the illegal fuel of the BMWs and after "investigating", the FIA found there "wasn't enough evidence", so the results stood.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
FIA: So Mr Marshall, were you waving a green flag?
Marshall: Yes.
FIA: Thought so, case dismissed.

What if the Marshall is a Ferrari or Alonso fan.

Anyway the Marshall's on track do not make the decision on which flag to wave they are instructed by race control via radio and so there should be a record of which colour flag the Marshall was waving....
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Being instructed to do something is not the same as actually doing it though Mephistopheles

I suspect though that some fans must have photos of that section of the track so I fully expect them to start surfacing soon, which should provide a definitive answer.

And as I pointed out on the other thread, there were green lights and flags at Monaco and Schumacher was still penalised ;)
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
There are camera's at every point on the track and just because we don't see them doesn't mean footage does not exist, there must be a decent shoot of that Marshall's post somewhere....
 
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