Ferrari - Are they making a mistake?

[Aerodynamics]

 

[Aerodynamics]

[quote="King_Alonso786":2ng5k8m3]I'm sure Alonso has learned from his mistakes of 2007 so i feel bringing the issue of 'Who Will Be Number One Driver' at Ferrari is invalid. Ferrari are making the best decision and that is to hire a 2X WDC and a driver who is universally regarded as the best driver in F1. Massa is a great driver but Alonso has the measure of him and would beat him comfortably IMO. Maybe he wont come back to be the Massa of old but even so head to head Alonso beats the Massa of 2008 hands down

Kimi has had his crack at the WDC with Ferrari and its time for him to move on and let Alonso show him how its done. Alonso to Ferrari is not only good For Ferrari, Its fantastic for us fans who want to see an Alonso/ (Massa) Hamilton battle next season.
This season has been a let down and i can only hope Ferrari & Mclaren get their acts together and build a WDC winning car come 2010
Roll on 2010 and the sooner this season ends..the better

Its funny, but I think Kimi was also supposed to beat Massa easily wasn't he?

I agree with the earlier post that Massa my not to be up to his old form straight away, but you can never tell with a bad injury, look at Hakkinen..

Universal it most certainly is not, but I suppose that is just an opinion. Remmeber, they are like bumholes..

(everyone has one)

[/quote:2ng5k8m3]

Have you got a bone to pick? Everywhere i post ...You're there!
Anyway, Kimi was supposed to beat Massa? Oh really? I certainly didnt hold that opinion (Thats Your Opinion remember unish: )

Alonso = Universally the best driver in F1. I dont think there is a driver in F1 at the moment who is good in all areas. Alonso is the most complete in terms of experience and all round ability. You cant argue with that. And yes Alonso being the best in F1 ATM is my opinion (But he is universally regarded as the best in F1)

Im out woon:

 

[GeoffP]

a driver who is universally regarded as the best driver in F1

I think he may well be the best driver in F1, But F1 is a team sport and I don't think he's the best team player. I certainly believe he started in McLaren being reasonably open and helpful to Lewis, but whether it was the support Lewis got off the track or the ability/lack of respect he showed on it, Alonso was switched off. I don't think he was ever the "mentor" type of No.1 driver, and I don't think he'll ever be happy having no team orders on or off the track.

I'm sure Alonso has learned from his mistakes of 2007

Agreed, but I'm not sure that they wouldn't return under pressure. This is what killed his 2007 championship because he took the rivalry onto the track and his driving style/ability was compromised. Since then he hasn't been threatened in the same way. Problem is, I believe part of Alonso's brilliance is his determination to shine, and that's in his team aswell as the WDC. This determination prevents him ever swithching off, keeps him open to new tactical ideas (hmm) and keeps his brain able to calculate during a race. Unfortunately, when opportunity has offered itself, he has shown no real signs of desiring to be part of the WCC at the potential expense of the WDC.

Here's the crux, if I had to put values to it I would say Alonso is 90% WDC, 10% WCC. Ferrari, on the other hand are probably 60% WCC and 40% WDC.

So why the move by Ferrari?

From The Telegraph 12th September 2008

Ferrari's announcement that Raikkonen would be staying until the end of 2010, alongside Felipe Massa, ended months of speculation that double champion Fernando Alonso would move to the Italian team when the Finn's contract expired at the end of next season.

Between the lines (my style), Todt was after Alonso, everyone knew Alonso would be the No.1 driver, but in 2008 Massa started to really compete and was vying for at least equal standing. The new guy in charge, Domenicali was concerned about whether Alonso really had moved on from 2007, so extended Kimi as contract one year as security to keep Kimi locked in and focused for 2009 and give Massa the opportunity for the No.1 spot.

July 2009, Massa gets injured, and as veravista says:

Ferrari are resigned to not having him

Because they cannot be out of contention for the WCC two years running and keep their budget I think the hand of Jean Todt as CEO advised Domenicali to take advantage of the budget and accrue Kimi's costs into this year, push Alonso's costs down due to the market and other well known events, and lock in Alonso.

Let's not forget that both Renault's recent WCCs and Alonso's WDCs have been with Fisichella as the No.2 driver, so If Ferrari have written off Massa for a season or more they may think that they have bought the 2005/6 winning drivers solution.

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes, Alonso/Fisi got the WCC in 2005/06 but there are a few important things to note if you're looking at that combination for 2010:

• Fisichella is far closer to the end of his career
• The 2005 WCC was built more on Mercedes' self-destruction than Fisichella's back-up to Alonso
• Alonso finished further clear of Schumacher than Renault finished clear of Ferrari in 2006

I don't think Alonso is universally considered F1's best driver. In actual fact, in a recent interview, Fernando Alonso said he thought he "may not be the best" F1 driver.

The parallels with 2007 are quite clear for all to see for Alonso. He's had no chance to prove he's over 2007 with a team-mate so subservient he deliberately crashed the car for him! While Massa may be a more popular person than Hamilton in general, he is as much Ferrari's man as Hamilton is McLarens, and he will equally be expected to be ?2. Ferrari's "temporary placefiller" has already seen off Kimi Raikkonen, and notice how Raikkonen's form improved almost the second Massa hit the wall in Budapest.

The big thing for Ferrari is, either directly or indirectly, Alonso has been a key part in both his last two teams being called to the WMSC, and I feel that it is this risk that would ensure that I, as a team owner, cast my net in other waters for 2010.

 

[GeoffP]

I agree your comments TBY.

However I do think that Alonso is possibly the best driver in F1 BUT only when things are going his way, he needs a successful car, and adulating team, and a subservient teammate.

Unfortunately when these ducks aren't lined up cracks appear (pretty monstrous ones as times), and this is what pushes him back.

Alonso certainly inspires emotion, as does Hamilton and Schumacher. I think this emotion is a result of moments of brilliance as much as controversy. Unfortunately I am not an Alonso fan, I would love to admire him, but he always seems to require someone to lose in order to win (if you get my surreal drift), and that does nothing for me.

I suspect Ferrari are considering shaping the team to get him at his best, a huge gamble - not one I would recommend, but I guess they've spent some time in the room with all the guys concerned and have reached at least a theoretical concensus. I wish them luck, but...

 

[teabagyokel]

However I do think that Alonso is possibly the best driver in F1

I think it is possible that Alonso is the best driver in F1, but I'm rejecting the bold claim that Alonso is universally regarded as the best driver in F1. I wager that if you asked everyone in the world who had any interest in F1 then there would not be consensus, and I doubt that even in the paddock everyone would agree on that.

With the exception of Fangio and Schumacher, there has never been a driver who has been streets ahead of everyone else and is universally regarded as the best driver in F1. For every Senna there is a Prost. For every Clark there is a Hill. For every Alonso there is a Hamilton?

To be the best driver in F1 without doubt, you must win the Championship in the best car if you have it! Alonso had the best package in 2007, and lost it. Hamilton too. There is no undoubtedly better driver of the two of them, and I'm not going to let someone called "King_Alonso" tell me there is.

 

[Brogan]

You know what, Ferrari might have ended up with a good deal here.

Alonso's salary is reputed to be €25 million per year.

Now bearing in mind that there is limited testing allowed and how much teams have to spend on R&D just to gain a tenth, when Alonso takes his 6 tenths with him then that starts to look like very good value




Don't take it personally, it's just a joke...

 

[Aerodynamics]

To be the best driver in F1 without doubt, you must win the Championship in the best car if you have it! Alonso had the best package in 2007, and lost it. Hamilton too. There is no undoubtedly better driver of the two of them, and I'm not going to let someone called "King_Alonso" tell me there is.

Who rattled your cage? Have you been putting too much sugar in your tea or something? My User name has got nothing to do with you. I bet you don't even know what it means

Talk about judging a book by its cover eh?

 

[Aerodynamics]

I don't think Alonso is universally considered F1's best driver. In actual fact, in a recent interview, Fernando Alonso said he thought he "may not be the best" F1 driver.

Wrong, he said ""I might not be fastest, or the most technical, but I am consistent." Cut the bull please

 

[Brogan]

King_Alonso, if you continually make statements like this:

"a driver who is universally regarded as the best driver in F1"

and this:

"Alonso = Universally the best driver in F1. I dont think there is a driver in F1 at the moment who is good in all areas. Alonso is the most complete in terms of experience and all round ability. You cant argue with that."

then you have to expect to be called on them.

Not everyone has the same opinion as you do of Alonso so quite clearly people can argue with that.

I would agree that he is a very good driver and certainly one who can get the most out of a car and possibly a bit more.
But I don't think I would say he was the best, more of an equal to Hamilton and possibly Kimi on his day.

 

[FB]

King_Alonso786 said:
My User name has got nothing to do with you. I bet you don't even know what it means

Is this it? Do I win a Prize?

Indian Restaurants in Slough:
King 786
14 Chalvey Road East, Slough, SL1 2LU

Nice to see you here K_A and to see your love of all things FA hasn't diminished

 

[Aerodynamics]

I'm not at all bothered if someone disagrees with me. I aint forcing my opinion on anyone. If you disagree, then you disagree....but when one starts nitpicking and taking the outta my user name, don't expect me to hold back.

 

[Aerodynamics]

King_Alonso786 said:
My User name has got nothing to do with you. I bet you don't even know what it means

Is this it? Do I win a Prize?

Indian Restaurants in Slough:
King 786
14 Chalvey Road East, Slough, SL1 2LU

Nice to see you here K_A and to see your love of all things FA hasn't diminished

lol, I dont love anyone who doesnt know i even exist. Im just a passionate and massive fan of F1 & Alonso and thats all there is to it. My user name has a hidden meaning, Tis a secret

 

[Brogan]

but when one starts nitpicking and taking the outta my user name, don't expect me to hold back.

Hmmm, I think you've taken the comment out of context.
From what I can gather, TBY was simply saying that your opinion is only as valid as anyone elses and therefore he wasn't going to accept it.

I see El_Nando has been suspended, I guess im next on the hitlist for simply stating my opinion!

EL_NANDO was asked nicely and warned several times but didn't take the hint.
Opinions are welcome here, trouble-making isn't.
The forum rules are the same for everyone so anyone who gets banned only have themselves to blame.

Not sure why you always have to play the victim though
If you read through this whole thread most people seem to agree with most of your comments, including TBY.

 

[cider_and_toast]

King_Alonso, As the site moderator I can assure you that El_Nando is welcome as any one else to use this site providing he remains within the forum rules. A fact that he has quite clearly been reminded of by myself and the other moderators.

There is no hit list. This in an open forum and we welcome opinions from all quarters providing they remain within the forum rules and are not clearly designed to provoke a reaction.

 

[Aerodynamics]

OK, Back on topic. Might as well delete above 2 comments or edit them. I can only apologize to those who were offended by my comments

 

[Brogan]

No offence taken mate.
I think we just all generally agree on (most of) the same points

 

[FB]

Germany's Sport Bild now reports that mutual team sponsor Santander, keen to make room at Ferrari for Spaniard Alonso, has agreed to pay McLaren 25 million euros if it will give Raikkonen a race seat for 2010.

If this is to be believed Santander don't believe it's a mistake to put FA into one of the red cars. Also:

As the speculation steadily becomes fact, Renault's new managing director Jean-Francois Caubet on Sunday all but confirmed that the 27-year-old Spaniard is now set to depart the French team.

"We will miss him but he will miss us," he told French television TF1 in Singapore.

'tis a done deal methinks

 

[Brogan]

What an odd arrangement.

Ferrari's sponsor Santander is paying the other team it sponsors (McLaren) €25 million if they will give Kimi a drive.
Does this mean McLaren get a free driver and Kimi gets 2 salaries or 1 salary and a huge pay off?

And if McLaren don't agree, what then?

 

[teabagyokel]

Germany's Sport Bild now reports that mutual team sponsor Santander, keen to make room at Ferrari for Spaniard Alonso, has agreed to pay McLaren 25 million euros if it will give Raikkonen a race seat for 2010.

If this is to be believed Santander don't believe it's a mistake to put FA into one of the red cars.

I'd imagine that Santander won't, there are a lot of advertising spaces outside branches of the Banco de Santander in Spain that need to be filled with Alonso. Alonso isn't going to be shoehorned into McLaren and Pedro de la Rosa doesn't have the same selling power.

They've had the problem that all their advertising in Britain is around Lewis Hamilton - and its worked - and they want that to continue, so they'll have to sponsor two teams because it is unlikely that Hamilton will leave McLaren any time soon, and impossible that Alonso will consent to having him as a team-mate again.

Personally, I feel that if Alonso manages to settle in at Ferrari, then it'll be good for the Scuderia, but if he see's Massa getting flamboyant Italian greetings, hears the "Hey, Felipe, baby" stuff, he might just fume as he did in 2007.

Hence, I feel that McLaren/Hamilton/Raikkonen (Britain & Finland - again!) is the better package because there is less of a setting in problem for Kimi, as obviously he's a returnee rather than a new guy! He never bothered about Massa's "Ferrari family" treatment there, either!