Fernando in Turkey

[FB]

Ferrari used the Toyota wind tunnel at the beginning of the year (as did Williams) but I can't find anything to suggest they've been back since.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/15880

Given what a load of pants the Toyota's were over the years you have to wonder why anyone would think it worthwhile using their tech. As both Ferrari (relatively) and Williams (absolutely) have been off the pace so far this year it would appear they have Toyota contamination.

 

[teabagyokel]

In actual fact, Ferrari are in a Toyota (2009) slot, and Williams are in a Toyota (2003) slot...

 

[Galahad]

No matter how many wind tunells you have the RRA restricts you to wind tunnel hours.So Ferrari cannot have gained any extra wind tunnell data by running two wind tunells.No matter how you slice the cake.The RRA states how many hours per month each team have in wind tunnell hours.

Is it definitely a monthly limit? I thought it was an annual one.

If it's monthly then ignore what I said before.

 

[sportsman]

From an article I read on the Mercedes website there was a specific reference to "they had reached their monthly limit"
That was some time ago, and I don't know how to find it again.

 

[teabagyokel]

From an article I read on the Mercedes website there was a specific reference to "they had reached their monthly limit"
That was some time ago, and I don't know how to find it again.

Which suggests that Ferrari can't just pick up an advantage by choosing which time of the year they do all their testing.

 

[sportsman]

This gives some insight into the RRA.

HRT has concluded a deal to use one the spare Mercedes GP Petronas wind tunnel in Brackley, which is not being used by the German-owned team because of the Resources Restriction Agreement. This will allow the team to develop the new car in the months ahead. The team will have its new nose this weekend and there are plans for a string of new parts for the Chinese GP and the team is confident that it will have a better weekend than in Australia.

 

[teabagyokel]

That sounds promising for HRT, actually!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Hey guys, we've actually managed to turn this thread into a halfway decent discussion.

 

[MCLS]

Turkey does seem to be one of Alonsos bogey tracks, particulary in recent years

 

[teabagyokel]

Hey guys, we've actually managed to turn this thread into a halfway decent discussion.

Chad, that is what I call success!

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I'm not aware of the resource restrictions on wind tunnel testing but I do have a tiny bit of inside information from a red & silver team in 2010, and that's that they were running their wind tunnel 24x7 constantly. It appeared to be of incredible signifance to the success of the team and they were very secretive about the whole thing.
So whether wind tunnel testing time actually translates to success on the track I can't answer, but it is very important to at least one team.

 

[tranquility2k9]

It's all very well bringing numerous big upgrades to a race, but with very little time to test them and ensure they are reliable at track, they can often be more of a hindrance, then a sudden performance upgrade. It is likely that it will take 2 - 3 races for Ferrari to get the full performance out of their new radical components, by which time, Red Bull and McLaren will have moved even further away with smaller, less risky steps.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Also, I heard somewhere that Toyota have the best wind tunnel in F1, even if their F1 team was never anything to shout about.

 

[teabagyokel]

It is likely that it will take 2 - 3 races for Ferrari to get the full performance out of their new radical components, by which time, Red Bull and McLaren will have moved even further away with smaller, less risky steps.

Yes, that seems to be the most usual way the development race works.

Only in 2009 did one team make a huge jump - McLaren - from the back to the front; and I think its because they suddenly worked out KERS.

Meanwhile Brawn were always going to slip back because they had no money!

 

[snowy]

It's all very well bringing numerous big upgrades to a race, but with very little time to test them and ensure they are reliable at track, they can often be more of a hindrance, then a sudden performance upgrade. It is likely that it will take 2 - 3 races for Ferrari to get the full performance out of their new radical components, by which time, Red Bull and McLaren will have moved even further away with smaller, less risky steps.

Mclaren bolted on their upgrades in Malaysia and found their drivers didn't feel comfortable with them, so they took them off. One week later they bolted them on again and on Friday night they decided to stick with them despite them still feeling uncomfortable. Overnight they analysed the data and came up with some set up improvements that they tried Saturday morning. The times weren't spectacular but the drivers felt far more comfortable, during qualifying and the race they made the new upgrades work.

This was McLaren taking risks and being just a tad desperate, truth be known and it paid off. Ferrari now have to take the same course or RBR and McLaren really will be down the road.

Only in 2009 did one team make a huge jump - McLaren - from the back to the front; and I think its because they suddenly worked out KERS.

I am pretty sure KERS wasn't their Achilles heal or saviour during 2009, it was sorted and strong very early on. In Melbourne Lewis blew past everyone from a lowly qualifying spot and would have been on the podium were it not for numpty on the pit wall. The car was aerodynamically and mechanically challenged in other areas and they went some way to addressing them. However the car was never fully sorted and only capable of winning races due to KERS and a particularly determined driver.

 

[teabagyokel]

I don't think KERS was an Achilles heel or a saviour; but I think by Valencia they'd become the first constructor to work out how to redistribute the weight to use KERS effectively.

I always thought it ironic that KERS' two wins for McLaren were at Singapore and Hungary. Not places where higher power would traditionally be considered a necessity!

 

[snowy]

Touché.

However the upgrades brought to the European GP were such that the McLaren went from distinctly midfield to top 6. There after Lewis and even Heikki to an extent were in the mix. There is no way a new understanding of KERS could have made that transition.

 

[teabagyokel]

I think understanding of the weight distribution required to run KERS is the issue.

At Valencia, McLaren qualified one and two. They also qualified "best of one stoppers" and "best of two stoppers" at Monza!

 

[snowy]

Riposte.

Not the DDD?

 

[sportsman]

Is it definitely a monthly limit? I thought it was an annual one.

If it's monthly then ignore what I said before.

This is from the Mercedes factory blog.
"The Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) has strict restrictions on wind tunnel running and the use of Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) and there is an allowance that we must not exceed. The allowance is made of up CFD processor capacity used and wind tunnel ‘fan on’ hours used so when running our large wind tunnel and using our CFD super computer, we always ensure that we stay within the allowance. Within the current FOTA restrictions, we are also limited to a maximum of four full-scale wind tunnel days. These are where we take the actual race car and work on it in the wind tunnel.