Current Fernando Alonso

Suprised there's no thread (although I had one for his blogs), so i'll start off:

A double world championship vs Raikkonen and then Schumacher in 2005 and 2006 respectively elevated Alonso's status but, apparently, no one told his rookie teammate at his brand new team of a theoretical 'pecking order' the following season ... and the Spaniard was 'seen off' by the young Englishman, Hamilton, into two years of Wilderness while both Hamilton and an even younger Vettel began to make their mark through '08 and '09.

Arguably, Alonso was in the Top 3 of all the Formula One 'Aces' in the 2000s following Hakkinen's retirement - up there with either Schumacher/Raikkonen and, then, Raikkonen/Hamilton - and remains so in the early 2010s along with Hamilton/Vettel...with only Kubica knocking on the door until the Pole's horrible Rallying accident.

A question mark initially over 2004 during which Trulli lead him in the standing until the Italian fell out with ex-manager and team boss Flavio Briatore (Alonso's then business manager) under dubious circumstances after the French Grand Prix.

Another question mark is...Who has progressed more since the end of 2007: Hamilton or Alonso?

A fan. Then came the unfortunate blackmail allegations against McLaren boss Ron Dennis on the morning of the 2007 Hungarian GP which came to light at the highly costly FIA 'Spy-Gate' hearings before Spa...followed by the odour of the deliberate crashing of the Number 2 Renault car at Singapore in 2008 which lead to Alonso finishing 1st in the event and ended in the banning of Briatore and Pat Symmonds a year later.

2009 was a poor year with 'Nando's' mind likely on the prospect of Santander paving the way to better prospects at Maranello one year earlier.

2010 was a fresh start at Ferrari (who no longer had Schumacher walking through the premises regularly) but first half season mistakes ultimately cost him a title inspite of being infamously aided by a Team Orders switch w Massa at Hockenheim (which lead to more world-wide criticism).

Relatively fast, relatively consistent but prone to mistakes and a possible insecurity complex (*) based on wanting sole focus from a team and being only happy with a Number 2 in the other car running behind him. Anything else and it seemingly rattles him.

(*) This is my own personal opinion.

..and so to 2011...

He's underperformed only at Malaysia (hit Hamilton) and China (invisible while Massa challenged McLarens and Red Bulls) and, arguably, Canada...but has maximized his chances in the other 6 races culminating in the British GP win.

He said in his post-Monaco blog that 'Silverstone would be the WDC cut-off'...and so, after some major upgrades, the Ferrari looks a winner again. It might be too late for 2011 given Vettel's finishing rate...but the 2012 regs means they should keep the hammer down at Maranello.

He's signed on through to 2016...So hopes are high of a WDC at some juncture...but not yet.

 

[Brogan]

Is your first name Ray, Kewee?

 

[Kewee]

For goodness sake Kewee Alonso was up to his bloody neck in it at spygate how you cannot see that beggars belief...

I have never said Alonso wasn't involved in Spygate. What I have said is there were others who were far more deeply involved and Alonso wanted out. The point that seems to get me offside with people is my comment that it was McLaren who were cheating, they were collectively in the wrong and dragged others into their mess. The one point I've always considered damning for McLaren was that Alonso was required to remain silent as a condition of his release. Doesn't anyone ask themselves what McLaren had to hide, not only regarding the condition of Alonso's release but also the fact that they wouldn't contest a 100 million fine.
I will say one thing, people back here in New Zealand that are close to the McLaren family were disgusted at the McLaren teams behaviour.

 

[Kewee]

cider_and_toast .... the comments on Alonso and Montezemolo were based on quotes from both of them during interviews on the Ferrari F1 website.

 

[Mephistopheles]

No Alonso wanted to use what he had to blackmail Ron Dennis into giving him number one status in the team nothing more nothing less Ron refused and that's when the shit hit the fan, and I'm not even a fan of Ron's

 

[Kewee]

Sorry Brogan that one's gone over my head, you need to explain.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think I'll butt out of this discussion before I get myself into trouble....

 

[Kewee]

I've already gone.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Well, again mate, they may have been based on quotes from Ferrari's website (hardly likely to say they couldn't stand each other on there by the way) you haven't quoted it as such and therefore we must conclude unless you attribute it that you are submitting these quotes as personal opinion to be taken as fact.

Now if you had said "Ferrari's website quoted that ...... " etc etc. That is an attributable source not based on your own opinion.

So, I say, one more time. There are many on here who have concluded through the weighing up of all of the available evidence and, it would seem, the majority of opinion is that Alonso was involved in Spygate to a far greater extent than you would like or would ever want to admit as he is a favorite driver of yours.

You can argue against that as much as you like, it's a free forum in every respect. What I contend you can't do is take the moral high ground proclaiming that no poster has the right to suggest an opinion of a drivers thoughts, actions or behaviors based on the summation of their own reading, watching and views. Not when you do the same thing but claim this is acceptable as you are using written sources without forming your own opinion. That would only be the case if you attributed them at the point of posting.

I completely understand what it is like to have a driver you greatly admire, challenged in a way that would damage his reputation. Every time I think of Senna I think back to my childhood watching this guy behind the wheel of a Lotus and I smile. The fact of the matter is, that a few years later the man I still admire to this day, used his car as a Prost seeking missile to take his world championship rival out of the race. You can't have the sunshine without the occasional burst of rain.

 

[Brogan]

I believe the internet term for a post such as that is 'pwned'.

 

[Kewee]

I'm back, briefly. Alonso has stated very clearly in an interview in F1 magazine that he has never asked to be number one, only to be treated equally. He also stated he didn't believe he was treated equally by Ron Dennis.
Despite the fact that was straight from the horses mouth so to speak and available for all to read (i quoted the interview on this site several years ago) you constantly read on forums including CTA that he always demands number one status.
If you go back up the page a little you will read I have never said Alonso wasn't involved in spygate.

 

[Hamberg]

Do you always believe what you read Kewee?

 

[Kewee]

I've heard him say the same in broadcast interviews. I watched his mouth moving and heard the words coming out. That's still not enough for some people though.
Let's be clear about something, I don't hero worship anyone especially not a wealthy racing driver, not considering the time I spend trying to help desperately poor people struggling to feed and educate their children in other countries.
As much as I love F1 it's in total conflict with the things I really care about.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Well I believe Ron Dennis when he stated that Alonso tried to blackmail him into giving him number one status, the reason I believe this is because at the time Ron had nothing to lose by lying whereas Alonso would not like people to think of him as a blackmailer and so had everything to lose.

I guess that puts us at an impasse Kewee

 

[Olivier]

The moment Alonso approached Dennis and insinuated he had information that had could have been damning for McLaren, alarms started flashing in Dennis head, but not for the reasons argued here. He realized that it was not just the action of a rotten apple within the team, but rather a more profund issue. The stolen documents had been passed so deep within the team, that even the drivers knew about them. Alonso's actions may have been reproachable but nonetheless they shed a light on what was happening inside McLaren. Again, not to us simply observers, but to Dennis himself who had no clue his team was creatively using Ferrari's secrets. And Alonso himself apologized to Dennis afterwards for his outburst (I guess it was a little to late since Dennis had already talked to Mad Max). Perhaps Rob Dennis could be more forgiving that many F1 fans (particularly those who see Alonso as the master mind behind the Mclaren debacle). Time will tell ...

 

[Kewee]

Mephistopheles ..... I guess we are at an impasse Meph. The problem is the tabloid press reported Alonso threatening to blackmail but as far as I know there is know there is no record of Ron Dennis saying Alonso had threatened to blackmail him into being given number one status. This topic has been covered in depth in interviews with both Alonso and Ron Dennis, obviously at different times.

 

[Incubus]

I don't know why we're all digging up the subject of spygate now, personally I've avoided getting involved in that topic because there are just way too many things we haven't been told, and quite a few things that just don't add up at all, notably concerning the number of people actually involved.
On the subject of Alonso I can't help finding it slightly odd that everyone sems to be pointing the finfger more at the whistle-blower than the actual perpetratrators? Ron Dennis recently said his responsibilty had been widely exaggerated, yet didn't elaborate. I suppose he would say that at this current time, wouldn't he..
But the bottom line is, I do remember seeing those emails betwen DLR and FA. I remember forinstance Ferrari had apparntly come up with a pionnering technique for balancing the tyres instantly, I can't quite remember exactly what that was, and Alonso was going to insist McLaren adopted a siimilar system. Didn't any engineer, mechanic or whoever else atthe team simply say "why?", question him? Would a driver really have that much powr over an entire organisation that people working alongside him would obey whatever technical requests he may voice without discussion? The idea sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

Ron Dennis in 2008 or 09 famously said he would after he'd retired from the sport write a book about that 2007 season and what went on behind the scenes. I thought it a funny thing to say at the time because that amounted to saying he knew a lot more than what he was willing to say. Whatever that was.

Anyway that's why I personally didlike it when the subject of 2007 is being brought up. This is one cattle of worms which we don't know the half of, with multiple vested interests involving people we probably never even heard of.

And probably never will...

 

[Il_leone]

For Ron Dennis he has to justify that he is the best man in charge at Mclaren and his coup ... which by the way could be overthrown now that Mansour Ojjeh is back fit and healthy. Ron can only stave this off if Mclaren deliver on the track so he has to put differences aside with Alonso to convince the Mclaren shareholders to not replace him

.................. that is until the next flashpoint between the two and I think that is more likely to happen if Magnussen was Alonso's teammate and not Button

 

[Kewee]

Incubus ..... Agree with all you said. When I entered this thread about 48 hours ago my first postings were to discuss the future now that Alonso is returning to McLaren. Sadly as is always the case on the Alonso forum it doesn't take long before someone harks back to 2007 and the dream of an interesting discussion on the future collapses into conjecture, nastiness and derogatory comments about Alonso, or me of course for my crime of being an Alonso fan. All it does is leave me wishing I hadn't bothered posting originally before things turned nasty and people started attacking me personally. I believe it's called cyber bullying when people can take personal shots at you while hiding behind their computer. I may be at an age where this sort of thing shouldn't bother me but I do have feelings. Anyway Incubus thanks for your posting.

 

[Incubus]

All well and good but you sure you're not being a tad over-dramatic here?... It's only a forum mate.

 

[Kewee]

Incubus ..... Probably. It depends on how other things in your life are playing out at the time. I won't mention names but a week or so ago someone took a swing at me because of my Christian beliefs, which had a big fat zero to do with the topic being discussed at the time. That in itself is enough for me to consider quitting forums altogether. When this particular contributor does this he makes sure he's as offensive as possible, why I have no idea, I have never pushed my religious views on anyone online. If I'm asked I'll respond, that's all. There is a forum on this site called The God Thread from memory, it's pretty obvious what the topic will be so why people that only want to attack post on this thread is bewildering to say the least. They do so simply to try and upset people. You asked if I was being over-dramatic, maybe but maybe not.