Felipe Massa

Brilliant driver on his day but is he championship material?

In 2008 he proved he was but thats only one occassion, plus that season the Ferrari TBH was a bit quicker and won more races that season. In 2009 he nearly suffered a career ending head-injury and since coming to back to the grid he hasn't really shown that promise he did in 2008.

Don't get me wrong he's a driver i very much like, but i do wonder if he'll be a title challenger again for Ferrari season in season out or if he'll stay at Ferrari much longer?

Whats your thoughts on Massa?

 

[teabagyokel]

I don't know if that's sarcasm or not, TBY...

It most certainly is.

You gotta admit that - failing Vettel DNFs - Alonso needs cars to finish between himself and Vettel. If the McLarens aren't up for it, that means Massa needs to be fast enough to finish ahead of Vettel and shave points from the German. No?

If you destroy Massa's confidence when the car is good enough, he'll be useless at taking positions from Vettel.

Aye, that is the current situation. But when Ferrari consider their options on driver choice, I honestly don't think being 92 points down enters into their equations. It is joining the title fight in July which will stop Ferrari/Alonso rather than demoralising Massa.

And that was because they didn't build a good enough car.

 

[Sarinaide]

Aye, that is the current situation. But when Ferrari consider their options on driver choice, I honestly don't think being 92 points down enters into their equations. It is joining the title fight in July which will stop Ferrari/Alonso rather than demoralising Massa.

And that was because they didn't build a good enough car.

Amen to that,.....can't win a championship when your car is only competitive in mid season.

 

[sportsman]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93185 Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo insists there are no doubts about Felipe Massa's presence at the Italian team next year.
Drivers such as Mark Webber have been linked to Ferrari's second seat as Massa continues to be overshadowed by team-mate Fernando Alonso.
The Brazilian has not won a race since the 2008 season and is yet to outqualify the Spaniard this year.
Despite speculation about Massa's future, di Montezemolo says there will be no changes to Ferrari's line-up next year.
"Massa and Alonso always bring something more," di Montezemolo was quoted as saying by Sky Italia.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Sportsman, this is the same di Montezemolo who, in his year end rant in December of 2010, said that (paraphrasing) "Felipe' sent in his brother to drive (after Hockenheim)"!

 

[Slyboogy]

It switched from "Massa's plight is Alonso" to "Massa's plight is Ferrari". Well for starters Massa joined Ferrari knowingly going to be a number 2

Yes, for 2006...not for the rest of his time there. In 2007-2009 he had equal oppurtunity, and in those 3 seasons he didn't neccesarily do to bad did he? Both Ferrari drivers had bad luck in 2007 unfortunately for him he was out championship 3/4 way through, then there's 2008, and then there's 2009 where both Ferrari drivers flattered the F60.

You make Massa sound like as if he's just there to have a little stroll in the park, and don't give him enough credit for his 2006-2009 seasons. Fair enough he hasn't been his usual standards, but just to say that he did well in 2008 and average for the rest of his time in F1 is quite harsh.

Alonso doesn't need Massa to help him win the WDC any more than he needs the other major players to assist, Ferrari do however need Massa to help Alonso if Ferrari are to win the WCC.

I beg to differ, if Massa won the Hockenheim race and Alonso finished second, I very much doubt Alonso would have been as close to the title as he was. Not only did Alonso inherit 7 extra points, it must have given him a massive confidence boost.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

....can't win a championship when your car is only competitive in mid season.

It has been competitive for a while, to be honest.

In Canada they qualified 2nd and 3rd (their best qualification for 2011). That's hardly uncompetitive. Prior to that Alonso was in 2nd at Monaco and would have won if Vettel hadn't been successful at making his tyres last for nigh on 3/4 race distance or somesuch. Prior to that Alonso was well up in Turkey (well ahead of the McLarens) and prior to that Massa was running as high as 2nd in China and would have been on the podium but for poor pit/tyre strategy.

They were garbage on the Hard tyre in Spain, yes...And they started poorly due to wind tunnel issues....but - post recalibration of the tunnel - they've come on strong and were competitive before Silverstone.

I beg to differ, if Massa won the Hockenheim race and Alonso finished second, I very much doubt Alonso would have been as close to the title as he was. Not only did Alonso inherit 7 extra points, it must have given him a massive confidence boost.

Agreed. In addition, Massa was being used in other ways thereafter to optimize Alonso's qualifying and race strategy. No question. Massa had become Alonso's/Ferrari's DataPig in the 2nd half of 2010. Shame that they destroyed him to the extent that he was too demoralised to shave more points off Vettel.

We're talking about a guy who has legitimately won about 10 races for Ferrari. That's no small feat!

 

[Sarinaide]

Sure at times Massa has appeared to get the short end of the stick or be the "victim" of policy, but really,....are we going to make out Massa to be the most hard done by driver in Formula One history, there is a certain Barrichello that got it far worse than what Massa has.

As for this Alonso/Hockenheim debarcle that rears its ugly head over and over, sure it did help, but that wasn't any reason why he was close or didn't win, the reasons were simple,...It was to late to start winning, Ferrari only produced a genuine winning car to late on into a season to win hands down and the other we will asses in respect of Filipe Massa.

In the early part of 2010 Filipe was given the oportunity and faith to be the leading man, in Australia he got a podium and Alonso was clearly the faster driver in that race but Ferrari refused to instruct Massa to allow Alonso to pass, at the end Massa finished a country mile off the winner and he and Alonso had to gingerly tip toe the last 8 laps on worn out tyres while Button and Co were driving right up their tails, this was because Massa was slow and drove Ferrari out of a pit window, just so he could nurse himself to a podium. Malaysia had a instance where Alonso and Hamilton came from 19th and 20th on the grid, Hamilton passed Massa and then Rosberg(I think) Massa was on Hamiltons tail, Rosbergs car at that time had rear end grip issues but Massa decided to park up behind Rosberg until the pit intervals, again holding up Alonso at the time faster. I think Shanghai or Turkey was another instance of Massa clearly getting the equal share at Ferrari yet being well slower. The real turning point happened when Alonso and Massa both entered the pits and Alonso pulled the most opportunistic move on Massa while he casually decided to stroll through the pit entry, that ended Massa's "I dictate the terms" hold.

This season it happened again I believe at Malaysia again with Massa not wanting to make a Pass on a slower car, then in Turkey Massa with a faster and easier on tyres Car got found out by Mercedes, Torro Rosso and Renault due to his rather gingerly stroll around the circuit to finish out of points.

I still say Alonso doesn't need Massa any more than he needs Hamilton, Webber and Button to help assist in winning the title, though to be honest 2011 is a forgone conclusion.

As for the Hockenheim 7 point gift, that was less telling than the effect of the safety car at Valencia and subsequently Spa, which Alonso decided to just save the engine rather than put up with FIA safety car rules those lost points where more telling than the "move over in the forrest".

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Who on here thinks Ferrari left Massa out to dangle in the wind by leaving him out so long on old tyres? That cost Massa a clear cut 4th. Pathetic, no? (But Ferrari won the British GP...so who cares if Massa only finished 5th, eh? )

Yet again they bungled up Felipe's pitstop and, yet again, it cost him 4th place. Talk about 3rd Class Service! Funny how they seem to have wheel nut problems only on Felipe's car!

If they want Felipe to shave points off Vettel's WDC lead, then this ain't the way to go about it! Hehe!

 

[Slyboogy]

They also kept him out for a long time on his other stops

 

[Sarinaide]

You sound more and more like the Lewis Fans that suggest a conspiracy by team over driver, if you notice this seasons pitstops by Filipe vs Alonso, you notice just how messy Massi often is, getting in, jacked up and release...he is nothing like Alonso who is by and large neat and tidy, it is how it is, but I can see how you think it is another Alonso/Ferrari consipiracy on Massa.

Maybe Massa's race would have turned around had he not taken 12 laps to pass a distinctly slower Rosberg, as Smedley said, if you don't pass soon your race will be wrecked.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

if you notice this seasons pitstops by Filipe vs Alonso, you notice just how messy Massi often is, getting in, jacked up and release...he is nothing like Alonso who is by and large neat and tidy, it is how it is...

I actually don't disagree with what you're suggesting. Alonso seem's to be more "tidy". But the wheel nut issue Massa had on the last lap stop had nothing to do with him. Ferrari screwed up. The Silverstone final stop strategy was also not Massa's fault.

I don't think it's a conspiracy...I just think they seem to be focusing on Alonso's pitstops and pitstop strategy much more carefully. They could do a better job for Felipe', though...especially if they want him to take points off Vettel.

Here they could have taken 2 points off Vettel. Instead they gifted Vettel 2 points. That's a 4 point swing Massa-to-Vettel as a result of wheel nut.

 

[Sarinaide]

It was just a bad pit stop....ala Vettel at Silverstone....as they say the wheel turns and guess who the benefactor was this time round...........fate is not without a sense of humour.

EDIT: if you ask me what the reason for the bad stop was,.....Massa rocking his boat to much.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

You sound more and more like the Lewis Fans that suggest a conspiracy by team over driver.

It was just a bad pit stop....ala Vettel at Silverstone.

if you ask me what the reason for the bad stop was,.....Massa rocking his boat to much.

Contradiction anyone?

 

[Slyboogy]

You sound more and more like the Lewis Fans that suggest a conspiracy by team over driver, if you notice this seasons pitstops by Filipe vs Alonso, you notice just how messy Massi often is, getting in, jacked up and release...he is nothing like Alonso who is by and large neat and tidy, it is how it is, but I can see how you think it is another Alonso/Ferrari consipiracy on Massa.

Maybe Massa's race would have turned around had he not taken 12 laps to pass a distinctly slower Rosberg, as Smedley said, if you don't pass soon your race will be wrecked.

One or two maybe Massa's fault, the last one in Turkey, and one or two others, just like every other driver.

I am not suggesting conspiracy at all....but why do Ferrari ruin his strategy by bringing him in much later than the others? He loses more time and track position that way. And in Turkey they ruined 3 out of 4 of his stops, one of them was his own mistake, they did the same in Malaysia effectively costing him a podium, Silverstone and today they left him out too late, Silverstone especially nearly after every stop.

The only time I remember him ever having a stop or strategy which was on par with the rest of the front runners was in Canada.

 

[Sarinaide]

If taking yesterdays race into consideration, they have to pit him before Alonso or after so it makes it difficult to determine, the last stop if they bring him in earlier they forfeit 4th anyways as he didn't have the pit gap available to stop Vettel. So in the next team meeting, the driver teams need to suggest target laps achievable and whether both drivers are willing to do longer stints on the undercut or wait until after the lead driver has pitted.

Ferrari have tried bringing in both cars at the same time, I believe Monaco and it cost both drivers a heck of a lot of time.

 

[Sarinaide]

Despite the resurgence of performance by Massa since Montreal(included), if he see's or wants to be seen as a top tier driver he has to start levelling or out racing Alonso.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

if he see's or wants to be seen as a top tier driver he has to start levelling or out racing Alonso.

He's not 'top tier' though. He's not on a Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso level and he doesn't even seem to be at a Button/Webber/Rosberg level!

 

[Slyboogy]

He's not 'top tier' though. He's not on a Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso level and he doesn't even seem to be at a Button/Webber/Rosberg level!

He used to be...after his accident he's not been the same, or ever since Hockenheim 2010.

Rather not open those can of worms now.

But I do agree, he just doesn't seem to be the driver what he used to be, wonder what the matter is, could be various issues, think Hockenheim 2010 was the turning point, it was either going to be a major confidence, or the opposite...and with the opposite we have seen his results.

 

[Sarinaide]

He used to be...after his accident he's not been the same, or ever since Hockenheim 2010.

Rather not open those can of worms now.

But I do agree, he just doesn't seem to be the driver what he used to be, wonder what the matter is, could be various issues, think Hockenheim 2010 was the turning point, it was either going to be a major confidence, or the opposite...and with the opposite we have seen his results.

All opinions are welcome, like most I respect that Massa is your driver, that said he is missing an edge to his driving and only until Montreal have we seen anything that resembles driving more to potential.

I think Filipe will like to believe he can mix it at the top and he will know that F1 is a results business and not getting appropriate enough results will not see him stay in a prestigious seat with the likes of the few touted names like Kubica, Rosberg going round to get a good drive soon. I do see him at Ferrari for 2012 but beyond that is unknown particularly with acadamy drivers Bianchi and Perez being potential replacements.

We have a long way to go still and hopefully Massa can start to drive more with a confidence of 2008.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

So much for Massa showing his manhood. [Does he have any?] The little Brazilian pathetically let Alonso walk past him without any hint of a fight.

Compare that to Hamilton having to fight for his wins and 2nds and 3rds against Button tooth-and-nail and there's no comparison.

Good to see Massa out-qualifying Alonso for once...but the respect for him fizzled as he took out the broom to sweep the red carpet for the Spaniard. [It seems as if the Ferrari pit crew treat his pitstops with the same degree of respect as Felipe has for himself these days!]

Wait! It was Nando's 30th birthday, right?