Felipe Massa

Brilliant driver on his day but is he championship material?

In 2008 he proved he was but thats only one occassion, plus that season the Ferrari TBH was a bit quicker and won more races that season. In 2009 he nearly suffered a career ending head-injury and since coming to back to the grid he hasn't really shown that promise he did in 2008.

Don't get me wrong he's a driver i very much like, but i do wonder if he'll be a title challenger again for Ferrari season in season out or if he'll stay at Ferrari much longer?

Whats your thoughts on Massa?
 
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Two different scenarios.... Button and Hamilton where fighting for the lead, not only that, they are fighting for the championship even though they don't have that much of a chance.

Unlike Ferrari who only have Alonso in contention for the title...

Do you really think that a driver in the same team isn't in contention for the title is going to fight the other driver that is?

As much as I don't like the situation myself, I see the sense in it.

Massa really should move, every race is damaging his reputation, I think he was the faster than Alonso yesterday and made less mistakes, the pitstops and strategy once again took him out of contention for a podium.

I am sure if Ferrari gave Massa the same treatment, at least strategy wise and give him normal pitstops, he would be up there, judging this on the last 4 races....
 
If Massa really should move, then that's even more incentive to not give in to Alonso because, franky, Alonso has no chance of beating Vettel. Vettel's had only one near-invisible race this year...Alonso's had about 4 near-invisible races.

I expect Ferrari to dump Massa one day...and I expect them to dump Alonso one day too and hire Vettel. Vettel's way too good and too young for Ferrari to have him in any another team longer term.

Massa should just drive the wheels off it and not give in to anyone...and then cut a deal for 2013 elsewhere. If he's seen as a fast driver, then he's young enough to be on the grid for a while.

He's become a joke in my books and needs to reverse it. As I said, the mechanics treat his pitstops as jokes and it's likely a reflection of what he's become.
 
Slyboogy said:
Massa really should move, every race is damaging his reputation, I think he was the faster than Alonso yesterday and made less mistakes, the pitstops and strategy once again took him out of contention for a podium.

I am sure if Ferrari gave Massa the same treatment, at least strategy wise and give him normal pitstops, he would be up there, judging this on the last 4 races....
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I don't neccessarily agree with that(Massa being faster). Alonso beat Massa off the start line and in dry conditions possibly would have been able to hold 3rd off the first corner, instead he got on the damp and couldn't put the power down and subsequently a RB and two Mercedes got past. Alonso had off and Massa managed to get ahead on the second off, after that he managed to take the Mercs and Massa off the start finish straight. Massa then made the mistake that Alonso and Vettel avoided out of turn 2 and damaged his car and lost 3-4 places then had to pit, the pit was essentially a strategy change to catch up the gap. Massa through his own doing drove himself into going on slicks, he then made them count up until following Schumacher around for 4-5 laps, that wrecked his race.

Another problem and clearly it is a Massa thing, bad pit stops. He is rocking the car and making it difficult for the nuts to go in.

Essentially, Massa drove himself into that strategy, and to be honest he did get in before Alonso, so it was hardly Alonso calling the shots, more Massa looking more and more at sea in a Ferrari.

RayInTorontoCanada said:
If Massa really should move, then that's even more incentive to not give in to Alonso because, franky, Alonso has no chance of beating Vettel. Vettel's had only one near-invisible race this year...Alonso's had about 4 near-invisible races.

I expect Ferrari to dump Massa one day...and I expect them to dump Alonso one day too and hire Vettel. Vettel's way too good and too young for Ferrari to have him in any another team longer term.

Massa should just drive the wheels off it and not give in to anyone...and then cut a deal for 2013 elsewhere. If he's seen as a fast driver, then he's young enough to be on the grid for a while.

He's become a joke in my books and needs to reverse it. As I said, the mechanics treat his pitstops as jokes and it's likely a reflection of what he's become.
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Massa has self inflicted wounds, he is also a soft character which makes the situation look like Ferrari are walking over him, when in fact he is just being a "yes man". Alonso having a just awful weekend still manages to get onto the podium is the real sign of "Class" over an "Everyday" racer. Whichever way you slice it or cut the mustard, and despite your loathing of Fernando, at the end of the day he is just better and really is over achieving with a rather lack lusture Ferrari.
 
Sarinaide said:
Another problem and clearly it is a Massa thing, bad pit stops. He is rocking the car and making it difficult for the nuts to go in.
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He is? not heard this before - where did you read that?

Oh and I'm afraid the bit about 'Alonso over-acheiving in a lack luster car' is pure fantasy. Alonso's having a great season its true but to argue the Ferrari is not up to scratch is ridiculous. It varies from track to track but that Ferrari is eastly a match of the Mclaren and not far off the Red Bull on some tracks.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14364688.stm Martin Brundle says (towards the end) that - according to Rob Smedley - Massa didn't extract the maximum from the car for parts of the race. Massa put up the race's fastest lap.

Massa's not the same guy from the second half of 2008 or the guy who came out fighting in the opening races of 2010.

Shame really. I really think Massa needs fresh air and, similarly, Ferrari could do with new blood which could push Alonso more.

I wonder what Nico Rosberg could do with that Ferrari.
 
I dunno - if I was a team manager I'd much rather have a driver that I know on top form can bring home the bacon than driver everyone feels can bring home the bacon.

I think its easier to bring a former winner back to form than to push someone to reach a level they've never been at.
 
RasputinLives said:
I dunno ... I think its easier to bring a former winner back to form than to push someone to reach a level they've never been at.
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I dunno either. You have to start some where. Look at Nico's father Keke. No wins until the year he won the World Championship.

Look at Massa himself until the final 3rd of the 2006 season. How about Jenson Button who didn't get a win until his 7th season?

Your Nigel Mansell. Out-performed by de Angelis for about 4 years until he broke his duck at Brands Hatch on his 75th GP and then the flood gates opened!

So, I dunno myself to be honest. Rosber's qualifying the car very well at the very least.
 
RasputinLives said:
He is? not heard this before - where did you read that?
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It is the only real logical reason as to why they are finding it hard to get Massa's wheels on quickly, I reject any claim that Ferrari are sabotaging Massa with lack lusture deliberately slow pit stops.

There are probably reasons but I would say that many of Massa's problems are likely driver related pit problems more than the team having issues, if that be the case then Alonso will also be having trouble.
 
If Massa loses 5s at least in one pistop every race I don't understand how it's his fault, in Germany it was "the wheel nut" the same in Silverstone, I can't remember what Ted Kravitz mentioned but he said he had a slow one can't remember the reason. And there are many others.

Only fault I remember being his, was that last stop in Turkey where he spun the wheels
 
So by that it hints at sabotage, which is totally only something Ray will believe in, there is no viable reason for Ferrari to intentionally wreck Massa's race with bad pitstops when he can still help the teams cause.
 
Sarinaide said:
It is the only real logical reason as to why they are finding it hard to get Massa's wheels on quickly, I reject any claim that Ferrari are sabotaging Massa with lack lusture deliberately slow pit stops.
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ermmm I'm not suggesting sabotage by Ferrari in the slightest but to jump to the conclusion that its his fault for 'rockin' the car with such authority is a massive jump to conclusions.

its a bit like me saying that Paul Di Resta keeps losing his nose cone and the only logical conlusion must be that its his fault because he gives it a kick before he gets in the car.
 
In Autosport after the Nurburgring they wrote that Ferrari are using wheel nuts with unusually short threads. Apparently these speed up the normal stop slightly- as you would expect - but come with an increased risk of a problem.
 
Galahad said:
In Autosport after the Nurburgring they wrote that Ferrari are using wheel nuts with unusually short threads. Apparently these speed up the normal stop slightly- as you would expect - but come with an increased risk of a problem.
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However, I don't know if it is fate or whatever, only Massa seems to have this problem, I haven't seen Alonso have any issues. Maybe this new threaded nut design and something that Massa is doing when pitting that is costing him dearly.
 
Interesting - that will explain some of the problems then. I'm probably going off topic but I didn't know they were allowed to mess around with nuts and bolts and the way tyres are held on. If they are why hasn't someone come up with an easier system?
 
The regs specify the diameter and axial length (depth) of the "single fastener" (nut) but everything else appears to be open to teams to modify as they wish.
 
I'm suprised no one has developed a click on click off system for speed then.

As for Massa - I guess he's just been unlucky that he's had the majority of problems. Think his have just been more noticable though as seem to remember Fernando's had some slow getaways too.
 
Philosophically speaking, why are the Scuderia keeping Massa for next year?

Ferrari aren't doing themselves any favours...I mean Massa isn't exactly taking points off Vettel, Hamilton and Button to any meaningful degree...and...

They're actually not doing Massa any favours either...The poor guy's obliged to lift if he sees Alonso in his mirrors like he did in Australia and Hungary.

This means it's codifying or perpetuating a continued down-ward spiral for not only the Brazilian's career but also for the Scuderia's efforts to have two strong drivers capable of worrying Vettel, Hamilton and the like.

Yes? No?

Surely it isn't helping Alonso either! Nando's basically beaten Felipe' and has little else to prove...but the downside is that he - along with Ferrari - have pulverized the little guy to such an extreme extent that he's not really helping him (Alonso) in the WDC to any degree.

Wouldn't Alonso be better off with a stronger driver than Massa (circa post-Hockenheim 2010) in the second Ferrari? Surely he can see it too?
 

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