Felipe Massa

Brilliant driver on his day but is he championship material?

In 2008 he proved he was but thats only one occassion, plus that season the Ferrari TBH was a bit quicker and won more races that season. In 2009 he nearly suffered a career ending head-injury and since coming to back to the grid he hasn't really shown that promise he did in 2008.

Don't get me wrong he's a driver i very much like, but i do wonder if he'll be a title challenger again for Ferrari season in season out or if he'll stay at Ferrari much longer?

Whats your thoughts on Massa?
 
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Massa shouldn't have been put in that situation at the German GP 2010 anyways. He was doing fine until that message came along and that was his best race since coming back from injury that one until the message. Ferrari shouldn't have bowed to Fernando's pressure and should have told him he had to work for his win. The rest of that day i was fuming and think why the hell did Ferrari do it to someone as lovely and nice as Felipe Massa. Still makes me angry to this day.
 
hammydigrassi said:
Massa shouldn't have been put in that situation at the German GP 2010 anyways. He was doing fine until that message came along and that was his best race since coming back from injury that one until the message. Ferrari shouldn't have bowed to Fernando's pressure and should have told him he had to work for his win. The rest of that day i was fuming and think why the hell did Ferrari do it to someone as lovely and nice as Felipe Massa. Still makes me angry to this day.
Click to expand

I am a bit sceptical about that part, I don't know where it was said that Alonso told him or the team to pull him over?
 
Sarinaide said:
I am a bit sceptical about that part, I don't know where it was said that Alonso told him or the team to pull him over?
Click to expand

FOM played 3 radio transmissions from a clearly agitated Alonso during the race, and they all centered around Massa. Only they know how many they didn't play. Fernando was obviously the main reason that Ferrari pulled that stunt.
 
Does anyone know what was said though?

I have seen some users comment on how Hockenheim destroyed Filipe Massa though to be perfectly honest, that is unfounded speculation, considering Barrichello was a victim of far worse and still goes on trying hard.

I know there will be the section that feel sorry for him, but if you have to assess the situation objectively then the only conclusion his that Massa has been nothing short of woeful. At some point many a good drivers have moved over to play second fiddle and still gone on to achieve good things out of it, If Massa is broken because of a single race, well then the future in F1 for him seems very bleak.

I have also seen the posts about him getting bad pit stops, well then either he must signal to come in sooner or accept he will be held out longer than Fernando Alonso, right now if you stack the two only one driver is pulling weight, so again, unless Massa can adapt he will continue to drift in the funk he is in. I sensed there would be finger pointing but frankly when you compare Massa to Webber and Button you can really see the reason why Ferrari have adopted a "oh well" policy to Massa, a very common theme with Massa is "there goes Rosberg, and followed by Massa" sadly it is a 40 lap theme.

I was hoping for a change, but it looks gridlocked for 2012 so I will only assume that Ferrari will not be winning anything next year either.......*sigh*
 
Sarinaide said:
... frankly when you compare Massa to Webber and Button you can really see the reason why Ferrari have adopted a "oh well" policy to Massa ...*sigh*
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So why don't Ferrari do themselves and Massa a favour and let him go?

If it is indeed the case as you say above, then keeping Massa is lazy and sub-optimal decision-making by Ferrari management.

Don't you think?
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
So why don't Ferrari do themselves and Massa a favour and let him go?

If it is indeed the case as you say above, then keeping Massa is lazy and sub-optimal decision-making by Ferrari management.

Don't you think?
Click to expand

By answering that it will digress to another Ferrari thread post. Quick answer, Ferrari didn't know the availability of the right options to replace Massa.

To answer this in a Massa perspective, to me it would and should seem to Massa like a reprieve, a second chance, but again rather invisible performances or grudge it out battles with mid tier cars. What I would like to see is a second half revival but nothing in the form book suggests a drastic turn around. I don't think he has the same fight and desire as a ruthless top tier driver, he seems to drift on while the best will brush aside mishaps and work to the bone to correct it.
 
Sarinaide said:
By answering that it will digress to another Ferrari thread post. Quick answer, Ferrari didn't know the availability of the right options to replace Massa.
Click to expand

Shall we take this to the Ferrari thread? The options re Felipe' Massa are unlimited.

Ferrari have the money to buy Massa and his replacement out of their contracts. We can take it to the other thread but in early December 2009, Ferrari had the following guys on their payroll:

Raikkonen
Massa
Schumacher
Alonso
Fisichella
Badoer

They're not in short supply of money to dump Felipe Massa, are they?
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
Shall we take this to the Ferrari thread? The options re Felipe' Massa are unlimited.

Ferrari have the money to buy out Massa and his replacement out of their contracts. We can take it to the other thread but in early December 2009, Ferrari had the following guys on their payroll:

Raikkonen
Massa
Schumacher
Alonso
Fisichella
Badoer

They're not in short supply of money to dump Felipe Massa, are they?
Click to expand

It is delving to close to Ferrari rather than Massa! But in saying that, money is not the problem, it is the driver calibre to bring in thats the problem, nobody from RB or McLaren will want to go backwards, and well from the rest of the field only Rosberg and Kubica are of any appeal and they are locked in. Sergio Perez is one but is he ready yet, maybe 2013.

That said Massa really is not leaving it out there, trying to save a drive in the what is a top tier team, he is hardly faultless to be perfectly fair.
 
Well it is contractual, which essentially will mean that if RedBull don't want to release Vettel they are not obligated to do so, nor is it ecconomically viable to buy out Massa's last year and go find another driver then have to spend another big buy out fee, assuming they to are willing to release the driver.
 
Sarinaide said:
Does anyone know what was said though?

I have seen some users comment on how Hockenheim destroyed Filipe Massa though to be perfectly honest, that is unfounded speculation, considering Barrichello was a victim of far worse and still goes on trying hard.

I know there will be the section that feel sorry for him, but if you have to assess the situation objectively then the only conclusion his that Massa has been nothing short of woeful. At some point many a good drivers have moved over to play second fiddle and still gone on to achieve good things out of it, If Massa is broken because of a single race, well then the future in F1 for him seems very bleak.

I have also seen the posts about him getting bad pit stops, well then either he must signal to come in sooner or accept he will be held out longer than Fernando Alonso, right now if you stack the two only one driver is pulling weight, so again, unless Massa can adapt he will continue to drift in the funk he is in. I sensed there would be finger pointing but frankly when you compare Massa to Webber and Button you can really see the reason why Ferrari have adopted a "oh well" policy to Massa, a very common theme with Massa is "there goes Rosberg, and followed by Massa" sadly it is a 40 lap theme.

I was hoping for a change, but it looks gridlocked for 2012 so I will only assume that Ferrari will not be winning anything next year either.......*sigh*
Click to expand

Seranaide, on some posts you say that Massa is showing the true pace of the car and that Fernando is putting in god-like performances to get it further up the field. In other you are saying that Fernando is showing the true pace of the car and Massa's performances are woefull. Which is it? Or at least which is that you believe?
 
Obviously Sari is wrong about Massa mostly showing true pace and is right about Alonso mostly showing true pace.

Did you see the link to Brundle's column which cited Smedley as suggesting Massa didn't extract what was being offered by the car in Hungary?
 
ExtremeNinja said:
Seranaide, on some posts you say that Massa is showing the true pace of the car and that Fernando is putting in god-like performances to get it further up the field. In other you are saying that Fernando is showing the true pace of the car and Massa's performances are woefull. Which is it? Or at least which is that you believe?
Click to expand

when you stack it up, if Alonso is struggling and getting really decent results of late, Massa on the other hand has not come to grips with the car or setup or whatever it maybe. I can't really say whether Alonso is getting more out of the car or whether Massa is driving the true reflection of the car, but I would imagine the truth lies somewhere in between.
 
Sarinaide said:
I can't really say whether Alonso is getting more out of the car or whether Massa is driving the true reflection of the car, but I would imagine the truth lies somewhere in between.
Click to expand

No the truth doesn't lie in between. That doesn't make sense since the Ferrari management are now expecting wins. They are thinking they are going to "walk" Suzuka! They think the car would have won in Nurburgring if it had been warm instead of cold...and they feel they would have won in Hungary if it was hot.

Also, you can't really say whether Massa is "driving the true reflection of the car" but Rob Smedley can!

Smedley already has suggested Massa didn't extract the maximum out of the car through periods of the race in Hungary. Massa put up the fastest lap of the race...but was off the car's pace through other bits of the race.

Do you not believe Massa's own engineer, Sari?
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
No the truth doesn't lie in between. That doesn't make sense since the Ferrari management are now expecting wins. They are thinking they are going to "walk" Suzuka! They think the car would have won in Nurburgring if it had been warm instead of cold...and they feel they would have won in Hungary if it was hot.

Also, you can't really say whether Massa is "driving the true reflection of the car" but Rob Smedley can!

Smedley already has suggested Massa didn't extract the maximum out of the car through periods of the race in Hungary. Massa put up the fastest lap of the race...but was off the car's pace through other bits of the race.

Do you not believe Massa's own engineer, Sari?
Click to expand

Not if the inference is that he was coasting, if it meant he was struggling then perhaps yes.
 
Jacques Villeneuve! ROFL

When doesn't he talk a lot of pish? You should see his column in F1 Racing...totally bizarre on how they let that dude have page to himself. Always the opposite of what others think :rolleyes:
 
I use to like Jacques when he first entered F1, but lost all respect for him, when he became Jenson Button teammate at BAR. Jacques many unnecessary and hostile comments regarding Jenson was completely un-called for, which became the main reason why I couldn't stand his pathetic little ass. Dave Richards did the best thng by firing Villeneuve and replacing him with Takuma Sato, and Jenson at the end of the day still beat Jacques pathetic ass.
 

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