Clip The Xmas 
Technical F1 Engines - Where to for the future?
- Thread starter FB
- Start date
I think Renault and Ferrari are in for a big surprise if they think they will catch up to Mercedes but good luck to them. The current rules are far too complex, no, that's not the right word, maybe obscure is better.
I simply do not understand what the FIA are doing with regards to Honda. Honda missed the 2014 homologation date because they were not in F1, this year there is no homologation date so why should Honda be excluded from being able to bring upgrades in during 2015. Methonks there will be strong language in the air.
Honda are already on the back foot so why not make it even more difficult for them? it makes sense to me....
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Way to stop new engine suppliers entering F1 Mr FIA nice one...
The sport gets stupider and stupider with every day that passes...
Edit
Way to stop new engine suppliers entering F1 Mr FIA nice one...
The sport gets stupider and stupider with every day that passes...
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rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
I get the impression the FIA themselves didn't spot the loophole and merely told Honda a while back to expect to get their engine homolgated at the same time as the other manufacturers. I suspect too big a thing has been made of those FIA remarks and the playing field will be turn out to be level.
pob
Podium Finisher
There are loads of disadvantages to delaying homologation of a 2015 PU*. It would only be used by a manufacturer who realises they have messed up during preseason testing or by one that concedes they are a long way behind and so they give up on 2015 by using 2014 PUs all season so they can effectively roll the tokens over to 2016 by delaying homologation until December.
*e.g:
1. Using a 2014 PU would give a huge competitive disadvantage until the 2015 PU is introduced.
2. The 2015 PU would have to be introduced for all teams/drivers of that engine manufacturer at the same time, and with only 4 PUs allowed per season, this is difficult logistically and increases the risk of engine penalties later in the season. Once introduced, the 2014 PUs wouldn't be allowed to be used even in practice.
3. It would compromise aero development as the car would have to suit both the 2014 and 2015 PU, possibly resulting in a 'b' car being needed.
*e.g:
1. Using a 2014 PU would give a huge competitive disadvantage until the 2015 PU is introduced.
2. The 2015 PU would have to be introduced for all teams/drivers of that engine manufacturer at the same time, and with only 4 PUs allowed per season, this is difficult logistically and increases the risk of engine penalties later in the season. Once introduced, the 2014 PUs wouldn't be allowed to be used even in practice.
3. It would compromise aero development as the car would have to suit both the 2014 and 2015 PU, possibly resulting in a 'b' car being needed.
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And sure enough McLaren/Honda are querying the homologation decision.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30685450
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30685450
Well Honda should have got their finger out and made the engine ready for 2014 then they would have the same opportunities as the other manufacturers.
Just as a complete aside, wasn't it suggested at one time that engine suppliers should make their equipment available to at least three teams on the grid?
Just as a complete aside, wasn't it suggested at one time that engine suppliers should make their equipment available to at least three teams on the grid?
I'm not sure about how many they are supposed to supply but I was suprised that they chose to go it alone with McLaren. For future development experience, Honda will only receive feedback from two engines. Contrast that to the number of Mercedes runners. I would assume that any failed engine / component wouldbe returned to the supplier to enable the cause of failure to be dstablished. Mercedes will have four times more performance and reliability feedback than Honda.
Mercedes also claim to have found another 50 horsepower from their unit over the closed season. I love the line "Mercedes' engine division at Brixworth has uncovered a further 50 horse power boost for 2015", as if it was hiding in the corner of the factory under a tarpaulin.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-set-for-50hp-engine-boost-in-2015-report/
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-set-for-50hp-engine-boost-in-2015-report/
As a percentage that's a significantly big increase. If that doesn't put the wind up all of the non Merc teams I don't know what will. Furthermore, I would also imagine that statement is calculated to say "look, we've done all this within the current regs, and you lot say you can't without an un-freeze. Phooey to you...."
Everyone is talking about how Honda would be at a disadvantage, which is true for this season, but wouldn't they then be allowed to develop 50% of their engine for the 2016 season whereas the proportion allowed to be developed by the other manufacturers will be reduced?
Incubus
Champion Elect
To my mind the comments above just highlight yet again the absurdities and incomprehensabilities of engine freeze rules.
The main reason given for the testing and engine freezes were to keep costs down. So what did they do? Replace normally-aspirated engines with the far more expensive power units.
The main reason given for the testing and engine freezes were to keep costs down. So what did they do? Replace normally-aspirated engines with the far more expensive power units.
pob
Podium Finisher
No, the tokens are by calendar year, not by date from first homologation, so Honda would get the same number of tokens as everyone else.
If they're by calendar year could they use all their 2015 development tokens in December this year then? And then use the 41% they have for 2016 before the 2016 season starts which would essentially allow them to overhaul the whole engine between the end of the 2015 season and the start of the 2016 season? I guess they'd have to get a couple of engines homologated at the end of 2015 for that to work.
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pob
Podium Finisher
Yes that would be a possibility, effectively rolling the 2015 and 2016 tokens together, but you'd have to be pretty sure from preseason testing that you were far enough behind to give up on the whole of 2015. You'd have the added benefit of being able to change parts of the PU that are set to be completely frozen for everyone else in 2016 (cylinder bore position, parts of the valve drives, covers, ancillaries drive).
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Now they are looking at reaching 1000 hp, which I fully support:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117300
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117300
Westy
Pole Sitter
Merc are in the pound seat development wise ahead of all the other manufacturers. I have been listening to an F1 podcast and they have been siting numerous F1 analysts whilst looking at the engine fuss this off season. There seem to be two lines of thought on the development.
1st, the tokens can be applied throughout the year. This would allow engine suppliers to supply upgrades throughout the season. This allows for an opportunity for all four of a drivers engines to be of a different spec.
2nd line, all tokens must be applied at one time (at any point through the season).
This brings me to my initial point: this testing season Merc will be getting feedback from four different engines each day. That is a lot of data. They could in theory run a different engine spec in each of the four team's cars and gather the info that way. Renault and Ferrari can only run two engines at each test session, Honda can only run one. It's crazy to think that Ferrari could have bankrolled Marussia to be a development team for this season (I guess that's what Haas could become) to alleviate this problem.
1st, the tokens can be applied throughout the year. This would allow engine suppliers to supply upgrades throughout the season. This allows for an opportunity for all four of a drivers engines to be of a different spec.
2nd line, all tokens must be applied at one time (at any point through the season).
This brings me to my initial point: this testing season Merc will be getting feedback from four different engines each day. That is a lot of data. They could in theory run a different engine spec in each of the four team's cars and gather the info that way. Renault and Ferrari can only run two engines at each test session, Honda can only run one. It's crazy to think that Ferrari could have bankrolled Marussia to be a development team for this season (I guess that's what Haas could become) to alleviate this problem.
McNish in favour of more POWER as well.
yes please.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117339
yes please.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117339
