Patently that's not the case.
Drivers may no longer move back onto the racing line having moved off it to defend a position.
- Thread starter Tacitus
- Start date
Patently that's not the case.
That is a bit to profound for my simple mind.By definition a defensive line into a corner is a sub optimal line and is slower than the racing line.
If it was not there would be no advantage moving back to the racing line.
My mind must be incredibly simple then, because I don't see what you're talking about. You said the driver in front can't defend any more - of course he can. What he can't do is move around in the braking zone to bully someone else off, or cause a collision. Fortunately hardly anyone does, so I don't see the big deal.
Let the pick their lines and stick to them.
On balance, I think I fall more on Galahad's side of this topic. This regulation is actually going to benefit the better drivers, as usual, as it means that skill and judgement will be required, rather than just crude swerving about. When a driver exits a corner he's going to have to be thinking about the next one right away, and set themselves up as they exit. Does he want to be on the inner line? Benefits: shorter distance to the corner, and leaves the option of moving out onto the optimal line before the braking zone. Drawbacks: running through the dirt and marbles off the racing line on the straight, so the tyres might not be optimal when they reach the braking zone. Alternatively, would they like to aim for the outer line, keep their tyres clean, but accept that if they do need to move to defend then it's going to be into a suboptimal line, albeit with clean tyres. Finally, they can head straight down the middle of the straight and leave themselves he option of moving either way, but that effectively cedes the decision to the driver behind, assuming that they are not a numpty and can set up a decent dummy.
As things stand presently, the drivers know that they can chop across onto the inner line, and that if the chasing driver does manage to keep their momentum up they can move back across their bows to block for a second time and just claim that they were moving back onto the racing line. I like this regulation, and I'll be interested to see what practical differences it actually makes.
As things stand presently, the drivers know that they can chop across onto the inner line, and that if the chasing driver does manage to keep their momentum up they can move back across their bows to block for a second time and just claim that they were moving back onto the racing line. I like this regulation, and I'll be interested to see what practical differences it actually makes.
A great bit of debating there Pyrope; I'm still not wholly convinced, but I'm coming round a little after that well reasoned argument.
Perhaps Sir Galahad is right after all (well, he usually is). I'll keep an open mind until I see the rule put into practice.
Perhaps Sir Galahad is right after all (well, he usually is). I'll keep an open mind until I see the rule put into practice.
This will certainly be a level of complication that will not help the Steward's popularity.
Whilst you can take an aerial shot of a track and (for the most part) draw a single racing line round the entire circuit, I cannot believe that this rule will apply for more than 100m outside the braking zone.
I agree with the principle applied in my little world where if a driver enters the "corner zone" off line, i.e. from defending on the previous straight/corner, they cannot assume the right to return to that line. If they move off-line in the "corner zone" to defend from being out braked et al, they must commit to that single act of defence.
I believe the single move restriction governs the straight, I think this extends to the corners and therefore allows you one defensive move for each section of the track, which should be adequate for competing, but will prevent blocking patently faster cars.
In theory a good addition where the regulations require pit stops and therefore force cars out of position on the track, but would be unconvinced where the regulations did not create artificial battles.
Whilst you can take an aerial shot of a track and (for the most part) draw a single racing line round the entire circuit, I cannot believe that this rule will apply for more than 100m outside the braking zone.
I agree with the principle applied in my little world where if a driver enters the "corner zone" off line, i.e. from defending on the previous straight/corner, they cannot assume the right to return to that line. If they move off-line in the "corner zone" to defend from being out braked et al, they must commit to that single act of defence.
I believe the single move restriction governs the straight, I think this extends to the corners and therefore allows you one defensive move for each section of the track, which should be adequate for competing, but will prevent blocking patently faster cars.
In theory a good addition where the regulations require pit stops and therefore force cars out of position on the track, but would be unconvinced where the regulations did not create artificial battles.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
If you ask me, this is a very good idea - there have been too many occasions where drivers have blocked the inside of the corner, and then crept back to the racing line afterwards - causing, or almost causing, an accident.... This at least formalises the 1-move rule, so that all drivers now know what is acceptable, and what is likely to cause censure! It should also make the stewards' life easier - any driver who blocks the inside and then moves back will be worthy of a penalty!
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
... But at least there's a written rule now - which there never has been before! - We all know what the rule is, rather than it being based on a known rule, as given in drivers' briefings! This should hopefully improve transparency!
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
... Now, this is just one example (And there are countless others), but think of Hamilton vs Kobayashi in Spa - Hamilton had taken the inside line, and then because he moved back to the racing line, there was an accident. (I know this wasn't necessarily Hamilton's fault, but had he not moved back to the outside, there wouldn't have been the same chance of an accident!
We were also lucky that some of the Schumacher moves in Monza didn't lead to similar conclusions!
When you see a driver blocking the inside, and then moving across to the outside in the braking area, there is always the chance of a massive accident!
We were also lucky that some of the Schumacher moves in Monza didn't lead to similar conclusions!
When you see a driver blocking the inside, and then moving across to the outside in the braking area, there is always the chance of a massive accident!
Tacitus
Pole Sitter
On the whole I fail to see the improved safety side. This rule will not prevent the classic turn in incidents a.la felipe massa and hamilton in india. I cannot recall an example of contact that was to do with this rule this year. The kobyashi-spa incident was not repeat not to do with this rule. It was because koybayashi turned in to the corner to early as he second guessed hamilton's turn in point. The schumacher- monza is the only example of an incident to do with this rule, and even then THERE WAS NO CONTACT. Just pure hard racing.
All this does is make drivers happier that passing will become more predicable and hence easier.
But as a spectator I do not want predictable passing.
All this does is make drivers happier that passing will become more predicable and hence easier.
But as a spectator I do not want predictable passing.
racecub
Champion Elect
But the Massa/Hamilton thing in their last crash was this rule wasnt it? Massa claiming the racing line was his, even though he'd left it and someone else had got onto it ahead of him.That will be covered by this rule?
I can see that. But the rules seem to me overcomplicated and against racing. Surely just a simple,'dont deliberately drive into someone' would do.
I can see that. But the rules seem to me overcomplicated and against racing. Surely just a simple,'dont deliberately drive into someone' would do.
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
I should say, this is the sort of thing that happens when a driver moves about in the braking zone....
Tacitus
Pole Sitter
Except in this case the rule would not apply as it is the first lap.
It wasn't this rule. Massa did not change his line in any way, he just acted oblivious to hamilton's attack. He was therefore penalised for causing an avoidable collision. Thing is it that this rule only applies to straights. Issues arise when you have "straights" like in valencia which have many kinks meaning a change in direction is allowed after every corner. Of course the theory is different to the reality as overtakes in valencia never happen
. But do you understand my underlying point that there will still be idiotic maneuvers around corners.Surely just a simple,'dont deliberately drive into someone' would do.
This is the only rule that is necessary. In the same way that in britian has a road law stating that one must not drive without due care, then why is there an additional law stating that a mobile phone cannot be used? Surely this law in not necessary as the previous law covers it.
EDIT: 3rd quote didn't work for some reason, Meh
Yeah but my racing line ain't the same as anyone else's so sue me.
My point is how is the racing line defined? There was a time when they had a problem defining what was the edge of the race track!! Now the stewards are being asked to define the racing line!! how the **** are they gonna do that?
Mind you selling the dummy has just become the easiest thing in the world, flick to the right the driver in front reacts and you've got him PATHETIC!!!!!!
My point is how is the racing line defined? There was a time when they had a problem defining what was the edge of the race track!! Now the stewards are being asked to define the racing line!! how the **** are they gonna do that?
Mind you selling the dummy has just become the easiest thing in the world, flick to the right the driver in front reacts and you've got him PATHETIC!!!!!!
Eureka I've got the answer,, it's simple when you think about it. all we need is a twenty four lane race track with the pole sitter getting the inside lane! and nobody is aloud to cross lanes,,,,,Jobs a goodun.................
That's got to be worth a Knighthood just call me Sir Mephs.
I thank you..
That's got to be worth a Knighthood just call me Sir Mephs.
I thank you..
Josh
Champion Elect
Probably the same way they do it now: if an incident occurs, they're going to compare footage from previous laps to see what line the driver(s) took and what line they took on the lap when the incident occured.
As the rule explicitly states moving off the racing line and back on to it, does that mean drivers defending a position can move on to the racing line and back off it?
You have to wonder why the FIA have worded the rule in quite this way.
Why not just state drivers defending a position are permitted one move, whether that be on or off the racing line?
You have to wonder why the FIA have worded the rule in quite this way.
Why not just state drivers defending a position are permitted one move, whether that be on or off the racing line?
Incubus
Champion Elect
I think the main difference with days of yore is that these things used to be sort of self-regulated among drivers. Code-of-honour sort of thing, rather than official rule-making.
It's worth remembering though than in the old days (I'd say right up to the late eighties/early nineties), moving across to defend, even just the once, was deemed unfair. You chose a line and were supposed to stick to it. And an overtaking attempt was decided under braking, whoever braked latest emerged in front.
People are saying the driver in front is is victimised these days when it comes to his freedom to defend, but from what remember from the eighties changing lines in a straight even the once at every lap was considered unacceptable back then.
It's worth remembering though than in the old days (I'd say right up to the late eighties/early nineties), moving across to defend, even just the once, was deemed unfair. You chose a line and were supposed to stick to it. And an overtaking attempt was decided under braking, whoever braked latest emerged in front.
People are saying the driver in front is is victimised these days when it comes to his freedom to defend, but from what remember from the eighties changing lines in a straight even the once at every lap was considered unacceptable back then.
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