Poll Did Merc get what they wanted?

Did Mercedes get what they wanted?


  • Total voters
    42

Mezzer

A fine chap if ever there was one.
Contributor
Seems to me that this was another relatively lacklustre season for Mercedes, who IMO must have been of the opinion that buying the newly-WCC'd Brawn and bringing back seven-time WCC Schumacher would create the perfect storm a la Ferrari days, Schumacher gently mentoring Rosberg while leading from the front. Of course none of this has happened, Merc are at best the fourth quickest team and Rosberg seems to be doing just fine in competition with Schumacher. Makes me wonder if Merc thought that the traditional several years to fully build the team would be required or whether they thought they'd already bought their way to the top, only to find that dream very clearly shattered. Thoughts?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
To an extent I think Mercedes have got what they deserved rather than what they wanted. They have, intially, tried to do it on the cheap but now appear to investing in staff and experience. The 2010 car didn't have any money spent on it (as it was a Brawn development) and they didn't invest enough in the 2011 machine.

They dropped a World Champion and a recognised car sorter for a bloke coming back after 3 years who still is nowhere near back his peak (and might never be) and another bloke who has never come close to winning race simply based on nationality.

It will be interesting if they don't get a winning car in the next couple of years if they take their ball away like BMW. I can see a very different driver line up come 2013.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Considering that it's a relatively new team, new drivers etc. I didn't expect them to excel immediately, also their major asset, the Brawn car didn't get developed much, due to resources therefore also hampering the 2010 car, which can also be argued, has hampered the 2011 car. This year you would have expected them to be close, but in reality everyone has pulled a bit ahead of their nearest rival since last year. Red Bull ahead of McLaren, McLaren ahead of Ferrari, Ferrari ahead of Mercedes.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
Rosberg might have won the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix had he not had to fuel which resulted into a drive through for his Williams. He was on the pace of Lewis Mclaren and Alonso's Renault through the race and finished was it 2nd or 3rd in the end.

But back to the topic. I think Mercedes expected to win straight out of the blocks, after all their car was effectively the world championship car from the year before. I will and still think that bring a 41 year old Michael Schumacher back into F1 was a mistake and i believe had Mercedes gone with Button and Rosberg they'd be in a much stronger position than they are in now.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Rosberg might have won the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix had he not had to fuel which resulted into a drive through for his Williams. He was on the pace of Lewis Mclaren and Alonso's Renault through the race and finished was it 2nd or 3rd in the end.

You could argue that he wouldn't have been in the position to win since the whole safety car fiasco as it was looking likely to be a Ferrari 1-2, until the incident happened ruining both Ferrari drivers races.

But back to the topic. I think Mercedes expected to win straight out of the blocks, after all their car was effectively the world championship car from the year before. I will and still think that bring a 41 year old Michael Schumacher back into F1 was a mistake and i believe had Mercedes gone with Button and Rosberg they'd be in a much stronger position than they are in now.

Hm...not sure about that. I remember Ross Brawn in an interview saying, they went conservative with the first Mercedes car even though the team gave him some innovative designs, just so that they could play a little safe, rather than lagging behind in the actual midfield.
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
I get the feeling that Mercedes were after almost instant success, hence the reason why they bought the WCC winners, and also why they were extending similar overtures to the McLaren team at one point in history.

I certainly think that they would have been expecting to be mixing on a regular basis with the top 3 teams, rather than where they are at the moment.

If they were not after instant success, they could have gone in with Force India, or another one of the lower teams, so I think they were after instant or near instant success, and they were after it viz a German!
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
How many Grands Prix was Jenson Button in contention for before his 71st race - i.e. before Spain 2004?

I think we are talking at cross purposes TBY. I'm not suggesting Nico can't one day win a race but to bring him in to Mercedes with no pedigree at even coming within a sniff of a race win, combined with a bloke who had been out of F1 for 3 years, was a high risk strategy and unlikely to lead to lots of silverware in either seasons 1 or 2.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
I don't think bringing in Rosberg was high-risk, and I think he's got as much out of that car as at least 20 of the other drivers on the grid would have. The high-risk move was to ignore the passing of time!
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
The key figures in the Mercedes team are all well experienced in F1 so I doubt that they expected to be winning straight away. I think the plan was to bring in Schumacher and co to develop the team for a few years until they can produce a consistent race winning car and that Nico Rosberg can win a few championships with.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Didn't Ross Brawn and Nick Fry promise Jenson a championship winning car if he stayed? Obviously they thought they could win, just as well Button left really.

Answer no they didn't get what they wanted...
 
Ferrari spent loads of time and money before the MS winning streak began their revival

I'm sure Merc noticed this

They appear to be team building at present and I am sure MS on the pitwall and Rosberg leading the team is a future they envisaged

No they didn't get what they would have ideally liked but they weren't only expecting this and had more realistic longer term schedules

So I don't think they totally expected instant success,
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Ferrari spent loads of time and money before the MS winning streak began their revival

I'm sure Merc noticed this

They appear to be team building at present and I am sure MS on the pitwall and Rosberg leading the team is a future they envisaged

No they didn't get what they would have ideally liked but they weren't only expecting this and had more realistic longer term schedules

So I don't think they totally expected instant success,
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Mercedes are known to be impatient and demand immediate success

Remember when they came into F1 with Sauber

The arrangement was if Sauber can prove to be a front runner..Mercedes would own the team if not then the team will stay as Sauber

They thought they had Schumacher on a gentlemen agreement when Sauber came into F1 to drive for them in 1993

1994 Frentzen shows flashes of speed. Wendlinger had his horrible crash, Mercedes wanted Bernd Schneider not De Cesaris as his replacement

Mercedes did not hang around and jumped to Mclaren at first opportunity to do so.

1995 and 1996 were difficult years...1997 Mclaren finally won but there was a string of engine failures and Norbert being asked the question if Mercedes should really be in F1 for their poor return on investment.

Getting Newey stopped the rot as he was able to design some fast Mclarens.

But Mercedes wanted more influence at Mclaren and Ron was wise enough to sell his shares to some middle East consortium so Mercedes could never get their hands on them and take control of Mclaren
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
If they knew it would take a few years they wouldn't have brought back Schumacher, it's not like he's getting any younger, and the noises coming out of the team before the first race in 2010 were those of possible wins and championships, not average points with the very occasional podium.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
One of the reasons why Mercedes chose Brawn apart from its wind tunnel facilities was supposedly it "operated on a rigid cost structure"
Which meant they were successful spending less money than the other teams supposedly and they insult Jenson by not offering him a pay rise and only doing so when Mclaren come in. Off course we know Schumacher is on £20m a year so much for operating on a rigid cost structure

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As Murray Walker said at the time of the takeover you never underestimate the might of Mercedes but they are known to be impatient and demand instant success.

This "mess" is their own doing. Last year in trying to defend Schumacher's rustiness they kept blaming the car being poor.

I believe Mercedes reputation for wanting things done their way is hampering the team much like what happened with the team as Honda.

Ross BRawn said the team had all the facilties and clever engineers he just knew to delegate to each of them responsibly to come together.

Mercedes changed the culture of the team from being a tight unit as Brawn into another division that has to report to Stuttgart

If Mercedes would just let Ross run the team properly then he would sort the team out again
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
If they knew it would take a few years they wouldn't have brought back Schumacher, it's not like he's getting any younger, and the noises coming out of the team before the first race in 2010 were those of possible wins and championships, not average points with the very occasional podium.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with aiming high...Mercedes were being too unrealistic and overoptimistic

a) Having bought a team
b) Having two new drivers - history shows continuity is important to success
c) One of the drivers has not driven in 3 years and is essentially a novice despite his reputation
 
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