Poll Did Merc get what they wanted?

[Il_leone]

Although he showed some glimpses of his ability in 2009 some felt Rosberg flattered to deceive by always getting the browny points of being fastest in practice but not being anywhere near that speed in quali or race day

Good examples in 2009 were

i) Melbourne - he put on the fresh Bridgestones and went like a greyhound with a few fastest laps which destroyed them and he was as slow as a snail finishing in 7th place or so

ii) Malaysia next race makes a blinding start and leads impressively but after pitstop some lost 15 seconds as he slipped from 1st to 3rd
Then the rain came and he was as much as 8 seconds slower than Button on the same tyres

iii) Singapore - a lapse of concentration where he crossed the pitlane on exit meant he got a penalty

At the time most people thought as talented as Nico was they were not sure of his ultimate level and his nationality certainly had some say in him landing the Mercedes drive

He must be one frustrated driver now thinking its a top team and really very little improvement from his years at Williams

 

[Il_leone]

Jenson Button 5 Mercedes 0

Jenson Button £12m for 2 years pay = £2,4m a win
M Schumacher £35-40m for 2 years and no wins

2010 Button 5th, Rosberg 7th, MSc 9th
2011 Button 2nd, Rosberg 7th, MSc 8th


Who's singing now ? Definitely not the Silver Arrows or these cheeses at Stuttgart HQ Board room

 

[Slyboogy]

Considering Button got a better contract from Mercedes as has been told by Button, I am not really getting this "up yours" vibe that a fair few Button fans are giving out.

Mercedes are serious and are gaining back employees that the Brawn team let go and getting some other good engineers in aswell this season, 2013 could be their year after everyone's gelled, keeping Rosberg until then was a good move as they get at least one driver continuing on.

 

[Il_leone]

Considering Button got a better contract from Mercedes as has been told by Button, I am not really getting this "up yours" vibe that a fair few Button fans are giving out.

Mercedes are serious and are gaining back employees that the Brawn team let go and getting some other good engineers in aswell this season, 2013 could be their year after everyone's gelled, keeping Rosberg until then was a good move as they get at least one driver continuing on.

They've got Bob Bell, Aldo costa, Geoff Willis..that is a lot of experienced engineers it could work or it could complicate things

there was like some 100 vacancies for engineers

Will it be make or break year ? I don't think so but the removal of the blown diffusers may narrow the gap if the engineers can find loopholes in the rules

 

[Il_leone]

Considering Button got a better contract from Mercedes as has been told by Button, I am not really getting this "up yours" vibe that a fair few Button fans are giving out.

Mercedes are serious and are gaining back employees that the Brawn team let go and getting some other good engineers in aswell this season, 2013 could be their year after everyone's gelled, keeping Rosberg until then was a good move as they get at least one driver continuing on.

Mercedes did not rate Button and insulted and toyed with him over money and the only thing that would make it even more embarrassing is if Button had become champion at Mclaren after Mercedes thought he was not worth keeping

I see it similar a bit to when Prost got fired by Renault and joined Mclaren and was having success with Mclaren whilst Renault disappeared from the front. Then though Renault made Prost the scapegoat for losing 1983 title

 

[FB]

Not to go off topic but Prost wasn't sacked for being a scapegoat he was found to be having an affair with one of the Renault teams senior managers wives.

Anywho, I bet Button is pretty pleased that he left Brawn/Mercedes when he did otherwise it would have been back to the old days of driving round for minor places again which would have been pretty dispiriting on the back of his title in 2009. I have confidence that Mercedes will be closer to the front in 2012 but I don't think they will have a winning car (unless there is a freak race). 2013, a different matter.

 

[Il_leone]

Not to go off topic but Prost wasn't sacked for being a scapegoat he was found to be having an affair with one of the Renault teams senior managers wives.

Anywho, I bet Button is pretty pleased that he left Brawn/Mercedes when he did otherwise it would have been back to the old days of driving round for minor places again which would have been pretty dispiriting on the back of his title in 2009. I have confidence that Mercedes will be closer to the front in 2012 but I don't think they will have a winning car (unless there is a freak race). 2013, a different matter.

I only use Prost because he timed it right going to Mclaren and having success whilst his former team never won a race again

Button left Brawn/ Mercedes and has won races for Mclaren whilst his old team has yet to win a race...you'd think this won;t last but Nico Rosberg is getting impatient now doubt as is everyone else in that team

 

[Galahad]

I think in general it would be unwise to write Mercedes off.

Clearly, no wins in two seasons isn't what they would have envisaged when they bought the reigning champion team. There were valid reasons why the 2010 car was disappointing, but for this one to have been no better, arguably worse, is more concerning and hints perhaps at deeper issues. They started developing the car before everyone else, went for a very short wheelbase and have burned through rear tyres at an incredible rate.

I can't think of a better combination to fix all this than Brawn and Willis, though.

 

[Il_leone]

I think in general it would be unwise to write Mercedes off.

Clearly, no wins in two seasons isn't what they would have envisaged when they bought the reigning champion team. There were valid reasons why the 2010 car was disappointing, but for this one to have been no better, arguably worse, is more concerning and hints perhaps at deeper issues. They started developing the car before everyone else, went for a very short wheelbase and have burned through rear tyres at an incredible rate.

I can't think of a better combination to fix all this than Brawn and Willis, though.

Thats why I am baffled how they've gone backwards in 2011 to the other 3.. I've already made it clear Mercedes have not learnt a thing about why it went wrong at Honda ....because they ran it too much like a corporate division with too many middle managers ( Nick Fry ). It was only until Ross had full control of the team they were really going places..
if the rumours are true at Ross has had a few rows with Norbert then the only saving grace seems to be Schumacher because of his past affiliation with the team.

But Michael is still not there yet with the results the board desires to justify bringing him out of retirement

There is no doubt the Mercedes engine with KERS is the best on the grid in terms of power so there must be something wrong in the design phase

 

[Slyboogy]

Thats why I am baffled how they've gone backwards in 2011 to the other 3..

McLaren and Ferrari have all went backwards this year aswell not just Mercedes. The only team from the top 4 that hasn't is Red Bull.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

McLaren and Ferrari have all went backwards this year aswell not just Mercedes. The only team from the top 4 that hasn't is Red Bull.

Who would have thought Renault would have slumped as low as they did? And what about Williams too. So Mercedes aren't the only one's to have dropped aswell. But some teams did more better than others, i mean look at Force India no-one gave them a look in and their finished only 4 points behind Renault and to some extent Sauber and Toro Rosso improved too.

 

[Slyboogy]

Who would have thought Renault would have slumped as low as they did? And what about Williams too. So Mercedes aren't the only one's to have dropped aswell. But some teams did more better than others, i mean look at Force India no-one gave them a look in and their finished only 4 points behind Renault and to some extent Sauber and Toro Rosso improved too.

Good point there Coach! Basically all the teams have slipped back apart from Red Bull, Force India have only improved by 1 point from last season, Toro Rosso have massively improved, and Sauber have scored the same amount of points last season.

So only 3 teams have improved from last year.

 

[Il_leone]

In comparison to last year

Red Bull gone further ahead
Mclaren jumped Ferrari because they became too reliant on the F Duct but it was no good on circuits which require downforce
Ferrari have gone backwards - only real change is Aldo Costa being removed and Chris Dyer moved internally
Mercedes have slipped further behind that they hardly got a sniff of the podium except for Canada and Monza
Renault lets be honest Kubica masked how bad they really were

Mclaren got more wins and more points than last year !

 

[Enja]

Not sure I understand all this 'wasn't it great for Button to leave Mercedes?' talk that's going on here..

Put it like this. Button hasn't won a championship since 2009. Neither have Mercedes.

How long shall we say Button has left in F1? 5 years maybe?

In the next 5 years I'd say Mercedes have a better chance at winning a WDC than Button does. I don't believe Button beating Hamilton will be a constant, and I don't believe Button has the ability to match the Red Bulls when the car is not entirely there for him. If Mercedes were to create a car capable of winning a WDC in the next 5 years, and subsequently won it, wouldn't that show that Button made the wrong choice?

 

[Road of Bones]

Ok Enja - look at it this way:

How many Races has Button won since leaving Brawn, compared to Mercedes? All I've ever heard JB say is that he wants the opportunity to fight for the WDC, which is what he will nearly always have at McLaren, no matter who his teammate may be.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Not sure I understand all this 'wasn't it great for Button to leave Mercedes?' talk that's going on here..

Put it like this. Button hasn't won a championship since 2009. Neither have Mercedes.

How long shall we say Button has left in F1? 5 years maybe?

In the next 5 years I'd say Mercedes have a better chance at winning a WDC than Button does. I don't believe Button beating Hamilton will be a constant, and I don't believe Button has the ability to match the Red Bulls when the car is not entirely there for him. If Mercedes were to create a car capable of winning a WDC in the next 5 years, and subsequently won it, wouldn't that show that Button made the wrong choice?

How many races have Mercedes won? Add to that Button has won 5 in this time and his stock has risen by beating Hamilton, the best he could hope for other than winning another WDC.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Haha our posts are really similar and yours appeared after I finished mine!

 

[Road of Bones]

We obviously share the "Button Bridle" that makes the fingers itch when we perceive an unjust swipe at the Frome Flyer

 

[Mephistopheles]

McLaren and Ferrari have all went backwards this year aswell not just Mercedes. The only team from the top 4 that hasn't is Red Bull.

I wouldn't say McLaren went backwards this year, they certainly started off backwards compared to 2010 but they went forwards from then on it just wasn't enough....

 

[Il_leone]

Not sure I understand all this 'wasn't it great for Button to leave Mercedes?' talk that's going on here..

Put it like this. Button hasn't won a championship since 2009. Neither have Mercedes.

How long shall we say Button has left in F1? 5 years maybe?

In the next 5 years I'd say Mercedes have a better chance at winning a WDC than Button does. I don't believe Button beating Hamilton will be a constant, and I don't believe Button has the ability to match the Red Bulls when the car is not entirely there for him. If Mercedes were to create a car capable of winning a WDC in the next 5 years, and subsequently won it, wouldn't that show that Button made the wrong choice?

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If you read previous posts Mercedes are not known to be patient for success and expect it instantly or quick return

the fact they were quick to turn their back on Sauber who had lot of success with them in sportscar is a starting point

they almost quit at the end of 1997 as they only won 1 race with Mclaren and had numerous engine failures.. Norbert was getting the question " Are you sure we are suppose to be in F1? " from his bosses - if Mclaren did not get Newey and turned things around- Mercedes could have well left

The fact is they bought BRawn - who had all the infrastructure in place and Mercedes thought Ross BRawn plus Schumacher would do the trick

If Button wins more races than Mercedes ever do before he retires then he would be justified in his decision in joining Mclaren. Besides why would you want to drive for a team that does not really want you or treated with insult. They made no mention of Button despite the fact he was the world champion when they bought Brawn.

Besides Button's offer at Mercedes was £10m for 1 year only despite previously being told he was not going to get a pay rise from his £3m a year after taking a pay cut with BRawn.

So if Button had stayed at MErcedes chances are he would be driving for Renault or Williams or even out of F1 by now after his initial offer.

This season Button has been the most consistent driver after Vettel .... and beat the other Red Bull driver Webber in 2nd place. Overall him and Alonso have been the next best drivers after Vettel. Where Jenson has improved this year in comparison to last year is on quali and race pace instead of 4th and 5th he's been getting 2nd and 3rd places.

No one is going to worry about 5 years later when Button has left F1 and Mercedes finally starts winning.

The fact is Button beat Hamilton which no one else has managed to do and he was prepared to take that challenge whereas everyone including Alonso would avoid having Hamilton as a teammate. Before that everyone said he must be mad to join Mclaren with Hamilton

As I've already said Mclaren have had a better return on investment from Button than Mercedes have had from Schumacher or Rosberg so far.
Button has been a better investment for Mclaren than either Alonso, Montoya or Kovalainen was

On the evidence since their return Mercedes have gone backwards as front running team compared to its previous guise as BRawn