DC, Lewis, Stacking and Holding Up

Josh

Champion Elect
These comments..... after D Coulthard had already said several times earlier, that Lewis was backing the pack up to help his team......when LH had a puncture.

It was unknown at the time of DC's comments that Lewis had a puncture and if you had actually listened to what was being said you'd have noticed that it wasn't meant as a negative thing, but as something positive.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
It was unknown at the time of DC's comments that Lewis had a puncture and if you had actually listened to what was being said you'd have noticed that it wasn't meant as a negative thing, but as something positive.
Err, maybe I watched a different race to you.

Coulthard stated categorically several times that Hamilton was backing up Alonso and the rest of the field.
When it was made clear he had a puncture, Coulthard never apologised or said another word.

I'm not sure how the accusations could be classed as being "something positive".
 

Josh

Champion Elect
Err, maybe I watched a different race to you.

Coulthard stated categorically several times that Hamilton was backing up Alonso and the rest of the field.
When it was made clear he had a puncture, Coulthard never apologised or said another word.

I'm not sure how the accusations could be classed as being "something positive".

I don't know, I just didn't see it as something negative? My first thought when he did that and then pitted (before it was known it was a puncture) was that he helped out Jenson...

I just didn't think it was nothing to apologize for and it wasn't meant as a negative thing at all. But I guess we all see things differently...
 

Josh

Champion Elect
I'm at a loss for words.

You don't see how falsely accusing a driver of cheating or breaking the rules can be seen as negative?

Err well I didn't see it as cheating, I suppose that may have something to do with it ;)
Is it illegal to hold up your fellow drivers? :embarrassed: (feeling somewhat silly right now)
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Is it illegal to hold up your fellow drivers?

Funnily enough, it is actually.

It came from the 2005 Belgian Grand Prix when McLaren were running one-two and the Safety Car came out after a crash between Sato and Michael Schumacher. Montoya was in the lead, and pitted, while his team-mate Raikkonen slowed right down to allow him the time to not get held up in the stop, and thus ensuring no-one else jumped him either.

They obviously couldn't overtake due to the yellow flag rules, and Raikkonen came out ahead of all the non-stopped people (and won the race).

After that, "stacking" was banned.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Funnily enough, it is actually.

It came from the 2005 Belgian Grand Prix when McLaren were running one-two and the Safety Car came out after a crash between Sato and Michael Schumacher. Montoya was in the lead, and pitted, while his team-mate Raikkonen slowed right down to allow him the time to not get held up in the stop, and thus ensuring no-one else jumped him either.

They obviously couldn't overtake due to the yellow flag rules, and Raikkonen came out ahead of all the non-stopped people (and won the race).

After that, "stacking" was banned.

Ah, but that's stacking under the safety car - there's actually no rule about not holding up your rivals....
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Ah, but that's stacking under the safety car - there's actually no rule about not holding up your rivals....

Indeed it is, but it shows a precedent that impeding your rivals is, if not outright banned, against the spirit of the sport, in a sense.

Its a sad, baseless accusation from DC, probably based on what he himself would have done!
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
... I agree it's a baseless accusation, and anyone with half an eye could see that Hamilton was struggling really badly with his tyres at that point - but given all the hoo-ha over team orders, it was just about justifiable for DC to suggest that he might have been holding up the other drivers - even if everyone could see that that was just garbage! - DC really is one who doesn't remember history very well - when it's happened before, it's always under a safety car - and there was no need to hold up the Ferraris anyway! Hohum....

Still, at least an apology was made post race!
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
DC's bias was in good form on Sunday (as usual) - With Vettel's start I nearly spilt my cocoa when he said that Vettel would get off with his actions as he had no prior record of that sort of activity...

Vettel not known for swerving right off the start when threatened - I thought that was why I always hummed "pass the Germy on the left hans side" whenever he was on pole..... It's kind of like saying this brick hasn't got a reputation for obeying the laws of gravity.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
Indeed it is, but it shows a precedent that impeding your rivals is, if not outright banned, against the spirit of the sport, in a sense.

...and that's where it gets tricky. What's the difference between holding your line and position when in a racing (place for place) situation and blocking (ergo, being unsporting)? Could a driver with an intermittent problem during a race who has a queue of cars behind him be considered to be impeding by not letting them have a freebie past him even though he has a chance at finishing in a points position?

Should Senna have let Mansell past at the end of Monaco 1992 (I mentioned this in another thread)?

Basically can we define the difference between fighting for your position (as far as the written rules allow) and impeding? My first instinct is to say no, and that a 'rule' for this cannot be defined and applied fairly accross the board.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
DC's bias was in good form on Sunday (as usual) - With Vettel's start I nearly spilt my cocoa when he said that Vettel would get off with his actions as he had no prior record of that sort of activity...

Vettel not known for swerving right off the start when threatened - I thought that was why I always hummed "pass the Germy on the left hans side" whenever he was on pole..... It's kind of like saying this brick hasn't got a reputation for obeying the laws of gravity.
I think a certain KeKeTheKing on these boards has a rather damning video montage of Vettel and his heavy right hand... :whistle:
 

Vortex

Race Winner
Hamilton simply had a puncture, that made him slow in the corners, he’s still not obliged to let Alonso pass as he’s fighting him for position, he didn’t actually let Button pass, he was slow in the corner ran wide and unable to keep him behind.

Coulthard made a mistake in commentary, he simply got the wrong end of the stick as he didn’t know he had a puncture at the time, none of us did. Should he have apologised right away? Perhaps. Did he apologise at all? Yes. He apologised to Martin Whitmarsh on the forum for saying that, not knowing it was a puncture.

Was it a big deal? Nope!
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Driving defensively is not illegal. Driving extremely slowly to obstruct an opponent (ie. Coulthard's allegation) is.

Other than maintaining a decent pace behind the SC, I really don't think it is, tby. I mean, how would you enforce it? Drivers with missing cylinders, jammed in gear etc. have continued to race their faster rivals since time immemorial.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Let's face it, the aim of a racing driver is to win at the slowest possible speed - especially in the current era of limited engines and gearboxes! The only rule that could be quoted is

"30.13 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane."

But what is the definition of un-necessarily slowly? I suppose if a driver was going round tight corners at 10mph, then it might be deemed un-necessarily slowly, but otherwise, I'd say it's perfectly fine!
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
This season, drivers are spending large parts of races driving more slowly than their cars would potentially allow, in order to protect their tyres. So "unnecessarily slowly" is vague. I also can't remember this particular rule ever being enforced, though I might be wrong.
 
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