Could Canada be Red Bulls last hurrah?

Its obvious that Red Bull have some kind of extraordinary short term performance boost trick.

This is likely to be related to the aggressive off throttle blowing of the 5 cm gap in their floor in 2 places. Apparently the normal starter motor gap is blown via channeling normal airflow. Although the Ferrari and Mclaren are said to have similar engine maps to do the same, the Red Bulls floor must be the best designed and engineered as an integral part of the design philosophy that has evolved over the last few years.

Mclaren are not using their all singing all dancing pre season octo exhaust and floor and so their current setup cannot be as important for their design philosophy as Red Bulls version is.

As the engine mapping uses about 10% more fuel per lap, it is only used in Q3. However I suspect that Red Bull and Vettel in particular have been using it a few times during the race itself as a trump card over the Mclarens. The Renault engine was always said to be more economical anyway.

Lets say Vettel has had extra speed above the Mclarens of 1 second a lap available in Q3 and during the race say 3 times this would explain why the Mclarens are not able to beat them yet on race pace.

You might say, but Mclaren and Ferrari have similar engine maps, however the Red Bulls are much much faster in those 3 laps or so. We have seen Vettel able to pull astonishing gaps in Q3 over the rest at will. I think they have even more available over a single lap and have been sandbagging, the gap could be 2 seconds.

This weekend is the last weekend that Red Bull might be able to pull their trick, once the off throttle blowing is reduced to 10% we might see Mclaren and maybe Ferrari up against a Red Bull without a nitro type boost advantage.
 

Theo_55

Rookie
All teams except HRT would be affected when the off throttle mapping is removed, cornering speeds should decrease and I suspect that would affect the Red Bulls more than other teams, all teams would be expecting the ban to be introduced and are no doubt working on alternative ideas.

We need to wait and see what happens after Canada's race, if the racing becomes closer that would be most F1 fans desired result, if however, the Red Bulls still has the ability to take corners flat out, then alas, we can all give up and wait until the 2012 season starts as the Red Bulls would be champions after the next four races of this season.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
As Theo points out all of the teams would be affected.Whether or not Red Bull are affected more than the other teams remains to be seen.
Red Bull have Newey in their corner.And I have no doubt that Red Bull as have all the other teams developed and are in the process of testing new floors and exhaust systems if there are any changes.
 

downforce

Race Winner
I would like that to be right but I can't see it, I think Red-Bull will still have more downforce and shorter laptimes than everyone else.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I think the other teams are going to be disappointed.

Yes Red Bull may have an advantage with their blown floor but fundamentally they also have a very good car.

Whatever they lose when the change comes in, no doubt Newey already has some changes planned to compensate for it.
It may be that they end up scrapping for podiums with the other top teams, but they are already so far ahead that all they need is the odd win and some top 3 finishes to sew up both titles.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
I think this may be clasping at straws a little as I think every team but HRT will be effected - thats an interesting one with HRT - how much will they gain?

To be honest the Mclaren's have been a match for the Red Bull on pace and even in front of Red Bull in the race and Seb has still pulled it back to win so I think we have to start to say if anyone is goning to pull this championship back from Vettel its not just the car thats needs developing but that the driver in question needs to match Vettel's form.
 

Road of Bones

MTC Mole
Contributor
A blip for Red Bull perhaps, but ultimately no. The car is still fundamentally good enough to win anywhere (sadly). While the rest of the grandee teams are still playing catch-up and having to make risky strategy calls to try and get ahead, then this year's titles are Red Bull's to lose. :disappointed:
 

TN23

Rookie
I will watch what happens rather than make predictions. You never know- some moaning and mithering by the bigger teams might eventually get this put off (again!) If it does happen, Red Bull do stand to lose the most- but will they have new and better ideas?
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
A blip for Red Bull perhaps, but ultimately no. The car is still fundamentally good enough to win anywhere (sadly). While the rest of the grandee teams are still playing catch-up and having to make risky strategy calls to try and get ahead, then this year's titles are Red Bull's to lose. :disappointed:

How is the car in the wet? Don't remember Red Bull winning a wet race last year....close in Korea that's all.
 

Mezzer

A fine chap if ever there was one.
Contributor
One thing that's totally apparent is that you can always rely on Newey to come up with something clever. The only question is whether there are multiple design compromises that were made to support the exhaust approach and whether some teams have more fundamental changes to make than others that could take several design iterations to perfect.
 

ATL11

Podium Finisher
In layman's terms, can someone explain how the off throttling blowing assists the car? Is it where ever when Vettel doesn't have his foot on the accelerator pedal the engine is still pushing hot air through the exhausting system and this in turn is directed to the floor to increase downforce and therefore grip and therefore time?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
That's it in a nutshell ATL. The more gas, whether air or exhaust gases, moving through the aerodynamic parts under the car the more grip it generates.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Has anyone got the "MINIMUM" ride height specs, I am sure the FIA have ensured plenty of clearance post Senna years.

I really don't see them Falling Off The Cliff as they say, but like last season Ferrari caught up in aero design...perhaps others will do the same but I can't see anyone challenging for the CWC.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think this title should be "Could Valencia be Red Bull's last hurrah?" as the engine mapping stuff will get reduced after Valencia will it not? ;)
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
True...but I doubt any of the teams will, Ferrari have just managed to get to grips with this idea, that was their main success in yesterdays qualifying yesterday, apparently
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92281 McLaren insists it is not holding out hope that the change to the blown-diffuser regulations will be the key factor that helps it overhaul title rivals Red Bull Racing.
With the FIA having informed teams in Canada that it is pressing ahead with an outlawing of both hot and cold off-throttle exhaust blowing of diffusers from next month's British Grand Prix, teams are already working on modifying their cars.
With the blown floor advantage that Red Bull Racing has believed to be a key element of the package that has made its car the pace-setter, some are suggesting that the world championship leaders could be hit the most by the new rules.
However, McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh is not convinced it will make a dramatic difference to the competitive order - even if it will definitely make some change to form.
 

Road of Bones

MTC Mole
Contributor
Hmm - given that Red Bull seem determined to appeal the ban on the off-throttle mapping, perhaps there is a whiff of vulnerability to them without it? Ok - they probably don't use it all that much during races (probably towards the end when Vettel has Lewis up his trumpet and they've got a bit of extra fuel to burn), but if they're no longer qualifying at the front because they can't use it, then perhaps there might be a shift in the balance of power between the front-runners after all?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92341
 
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