Christian Horner - Team Principal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter johnnoble1990
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For me CH is not a bad TP, his type of TP is just not what I regard as a real TP

Therefore his success is not comparable to the success of FW, I think this is what some mean by saying he is just a mouthpiece

We can't take what he says too seriously as he might be forced to change his mind by his bosses or might have been told what to say in the first place, unlike a Ron or Enzo

So his undoubted success which confirms him at least as a good TP doesn't mean we should be concluding that the success was as down to him as Williams' was to FW

But I am sure there are some who will call him a genius etc because of his results
 
Not to stray off topic but Enzo Ferrari wasn't involved in the day to day running of his F1 team much after the 1960's, when FIAT took over. He was involved in driver selection, but then so were Philip Morris as they picked up the wage bill. Ferrari was once said to have commented:

The car was the reason for any success, the driver simply and accessory
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A view held by Bernie Ecclestone in his Brabham days and by Frank Williams.

However, the success of all of these men has been to collect around them a team of brilliant and gifted staff who have created the car and the environment for the creation of race winning cars and to encourage race winning drivers. As soon as the centre of the team, the principal, either leaves or falters so does the team. Brabham fell apart after Bernie left, Williams have been in decline since FW decided to alienate Adrian Newey and hasn't attracted anyone of that calibre since.

Then look at some of the other egos who have tried their hand at F1 management: Alain Prost, Craig Pollock, Niki Lauda, Bobby Rahal, Tom Walkinshaw - gifted men in other walks of life, appalling F1 team principals. Credit where it's due to Christian Horner he holds Red Bull Racing together and has made them incredibly successful.
 
Agree there FB

CH like the manager for the Rolling Stones or Beatles has done a good job holding them together and producing results, and despite the talent and resources he was handed he could still have royally screwed up which he didn't

I think in his F1 TP role he is less the rainmaker and more a competent cog in a well oiled machine
 
Cookinflatsix said:
Agree there FB

CH like the manager for the Rolling Stones or Beatles has done a good job holding them together and producing results, and despite the talent and resources he was handed he could still have royally screwed up which he didn't

I think in his F1 TP role he is less the rainmaker and more a competent cog in a well oiled machine
Click to expand

Christian horner is the engine and to complete the analogy Red Bull are the fuel and the mechanics are the driveshaft (snigger) and suspension whist the drivers are the tyres (spare set in the garage). The PR team are the exhaust system (make aot of noise) and the strategists and data crunchers are the ECU.

Anyone care to add? :moustache:
 
I would say that the evidence is in his lack of faith in one of his drivers. And the way he bows down to people who think Vettel can walk on water.

If he is a good team manager, then he does a damn good job of convincing me that he isn't, maybe he should become an illusionist when he finishes with F1 he could probably fool Pen and Teller.
 
I dont know why but i think the Christian Horner isnt a bad person and that his job really isnt that much compared to Helmet(whatever his name is)Marko. Just looking at Christian i just get the feeling that he isnt person who uses team orders that ALWAYS favour vettel.
 
First of all, who signed Newey in the first place? Dozens of team principals have tried to prise the man away over the years, only two have managed it, and he was one. Not only that, but unlike his previous team, Horner has created an environment in which Newey is not only operating very effectively, but is very happy too. When he was at McLaren, in interviews he would often suggest that he only had a few years left in F1 and would go and design yachts - that sort of talk has gone quiet more recently.

In fact, I'd argue (judging by this thread) that the only aspect of his job he isn't doing well is the PR side! Every principal of a successful team has had to make decisions that people have disagreed with, and several decisions that turned out to be just plain wrong. I'm afraid that's life. Nobody knows or cares what Giancarlo Minardi's driver handling style was, or who he favoured with new parts! They have to be judged by results - ergo, Horner is the current best.
 
So you all say that Horner doesn't rate Webber, and this makes him a bad team principal. Remember his 14 point Championship lead after the 2010 Japanese Grand Prix? He blew it with an unforced error in Korea, then choked in Abu Dhabi. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Red Bull's strategy, Webber needed to finish ahead of Alonso and at no point led him. It seemed to me that Horner judged the ability of Webber pretty well.

He favoured Vettel in 2010, you say. Well when we were all criticising Vettel, what did Horner do? Back his man. And how did that turn out for him...? Here are the last few races of 2010, by the way.

TBY.webp


I suppose if he were to read this he'll be sad that many of you don't think he's a good Team Principal, but his 2 Constructors' Titles will calm him down somewhat, don't you think?
 
teabagyokel said:
So you all say that Horner doesn't rate Webber, and this makes him a bad team principal. Remember his 14 point Championship lead after the 2010 Japanese Grand Prix? He blew it with an unforced error in Korea, then choked in Abu Dhabi. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Red Bull's strategy, Webber needed to finish ahead of Alonso and at no point led him. It seemed to me that Horner judged the ability of Webber pretty well.

He favoured Vettel in 2010, you say. Well when we were all criticising Vettel, what did Horner do? Back his man. And how did that turn out for him...? Here are the last few races of 2010, by the way.

View attachment 3676

I suppose if he were to read this he'll be sad that many of you don't think he's a good Team Principal, but his 2 Constructors' Titles will calm him down somewhat, don't you think?
Click to expand


Had Vettel not won the title at the last race in 2010 the front wing row and his wording " We have to take the championship into consideration" when he agreed that Vettel should have Webber's front wing after breaking his own would have looked utter foolish

THe only good thing I commend Horner for was convincing Helmut and Dietrich the team needed an experienced driver - DC rather than two rookies - Klelin and Liuzzi as was the plan

Then DC managed to help build the team by getting Newey on board

That is as far as Horner's credit goes.

Everything else at Red Bull is determined by Newey who designs the cars and Helmut who decides who drives for the team

- If Webber did not have a good personal relationship with Dietrich he would have been out of the team by now

Horner's problem is he can't stand on his own two feet and deal with volatile situations well ....if it was any other driver say Hamilton, ALonso than Webber in the other Red Bull then things might be even more volatile in the team. Webber knows he is heading for retirement if he left but the others would still be in demand. If Helmut opens his mouth he just seems to tow the line and follow suit rather back his own words

Horner even admitted that Hamilton and Vettel in the same team more difficult to handle last year.

I think DC would make a better team principal than him from being at the sharp end of the grid and had experience dealing with the press at the front.
 
Il_leone said:
THe only good thing I commend Horner for was convincing Helmut and Dietrich the team needed an experienced driver
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...and blowing the Red Bull trumpet. He is now starting to sound multi-talented.

Il_leone said:
Horner even admitted that Hamilton and Vettel in the same team more difficult to handle last year.
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Do you disagree? I think that pairing would be a nightmare for any team principal.

Also, seeing as that you don't think that Horner is involved in anything other than recommending drivers to Helmut and Dietrich (although you also said earlier that it was Helmut and Dietrich that chose the drivers) and blowing the trumpet, once he had made this selection, it would be someone else's problem, right? (Although it wouldn't be him who made the selection... or would it?)

:dizzy:
 
I think Horner has done his job better than any of the other TPs have done theirs in recent years. He signed Newey and gave him the tools, people and budget to build championship winning cars. He has kept the sponsorship flowing from Red Bull, who could just easily put their marketing budgets to a different use. He signed Vettel from BMW, and kept Webber happy (enough) to play the role he has. He didnt replace Webber with a gamble, nor did he sign Hamilton when Lewis came begging for a drive.

Also, he has played the piranhas perfectly. If he hadn't gone to war at Silverstone over the ebds, Red Bull may have lost their advantage. Yes, Neweys brilliance designed the system, but Horner made sure the team could still take advantage of Neweys brilliance when the fia moved to ban it.

Quite what they are playing at with fota and the rra, who knows but again there he has prevented advantages that his team have being eliminated. It's not just what he has done, but also what he hasn't done that have led to the results.

His team have won the last two drivers and constructors championships as a result of him doing his job extremely well.
 
The Turkey 2010 seems to be thing that pops up the most, but I remember there being a lot of stuff inside that Webber was told if Vettel came up don't fight him too hard, yeah he gave him enough room, but it's the type of space a team mate would give, more like Alonso would give. Plus I'm sure there were talks over the radio...

Plus, I initially thought Webber was to blame too back then...

Can't say any of the top 3 teams strike me as the best team principals, they all have flaws, but Horner is getting the job done, yeah he has Newey and Vettel and money, but McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes aren't short of money, great drivers, or great engineers are they?
 
Galahad said:
First of all, who signed Newey in the first place? .
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Newey goes where Newey wants to go it has nothing to do with the team principal and more to do with a perceived challenge to build a championship winning car from scratch, If Red Bull were already winning races Newey wouldn't have gone there and to be honest I can't see him staying there.

In fact all of Red Bulls success is down to Newey and nothing to do with Horner (Unless of course CH purposely made his team look crap to attract AN in that case kudos to him) you only have to look at Newey's track record to know this.
 
Mephistopheles said:
In fact all of Red Bulls success is down to Newey and nothing to do with Horner you only have to look at Newey's track record to know this.
Click to expand

Hard to say that Horner had "nothing" to do with it, but I would definitely place him down the totem pole.

When you start with the reasons for their success, Newey and Vettel are out front.
 

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