Alain Prost

Incubus

Champion Elect
So that means you think Schumi is the best driver of all time then right? ;)
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He can't possibly be because "all time" includes now, and he certainly ain't the greatest now is he?
Logic, captain! :snigger:
 
So that means you think Schumi is the best driver of all time then right? ;)
If you read my first post in this thread, I have Schumacher 5th.

Senna's poles to race ratio is far superior to anything Schumacher mustered up.

Senna had to share wins with Prost. Schumacher had weak Number 2 teammates who were contractually obliged to move over if they were ahead.

So, as per my first post, I have Senna/Prost ahead of Schumacher.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Statistically, as I mentioned in the Schumie thread, he is the greatest of all time. I just think Prost and Senna were better drivers.

But we are straying off topic. Don't make delete my own posts...
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Senna's poles to race ratio is far superior to anything Schumacher mustered up.
For a Senna/Vettel fan, its very easy to talk about poles. Of course, we're not running the Qualifying World Championship. Thats done by me, out of interest, not by the world at large.

So wins to race ratios:

CTA.jpg


Not looking good for the Church of St. Ayrton, is it?
 

RasputinLives

Doesn't look a bit like Jesus
Contributor
Senna had to share wins with Prost. Schumacher had weak Number 2 teammates who were contractually obliged to move over if they were ahead.
to be fair Senna only had to 'share' wins with Prost for 2 years and if you look at the rest of his team-mates:

Johnny Cecotto
Ellio De Angelis
Johnny Dumfries
Satoru Nakajima
Gerhard Berger
Michael Andretti
Damon Hill

.............its not that competitve is it? I'd rate Barrichello and Irvine over most of those chaps - and don't try the contractual obliged thing - apart from when he partnered Prost Senna always made sure he was given number 1 status.

But if you're using team-mate logic I already listed Prost's - he had to 'share' wins with Lauda, Arnoux and Mansell!

So by your logic Prost is the greatest of all time right?
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
Prost could have easily won 8 championships. The 4 he already won, 1983 - he should have, he would have won in 1988 if it wasn't for that ridiculous scoring system, 1990 he could have won also, and 1984, when he lost by half-a-point. Oh, and 51 victories. He is Mr. Consistent. He was in a title fight for 8/11 years. He is up there with Moss and Fangio, and better than Senna and Schumacher.
 
But if you're using team-mate logic I already listed Prost's - he had to 'share' wins with Lauda, Arnoux and Mansell!

So by your logic Prost is the greatest of all time right?
Yes I rate Prost high...Very High!

1 = Senna
1 = Prost
3. Clark
4. Fangio
5. Schumacher
6. Stewart

I rate Prost very high because he had extremely strong teammates who actually cost him championships, namely Arnoux (who took points off him in 1982), Lauda (1984), Senna (1988) and Mansell (who cost him in Portugal in 1990).

Prost also was partly responsible for Senna joining McLaren because he felt Senna - along with Honda engines - would strengthen McLaren.

He also made Rosberg and Mansell look very ordinary...and he dismantled Lauda (though you could argue Lauda didn't care whilst Prost was rising and rising...On the other hand, Prost handled Hill eventhough Hill was rising whilst Prost himself was merely phoning it in wanting to get out alive and in one piece.)

Imagine how many more wins and titles Prost would have had had Renault and Ferrari ran Shumacher and Alonso era team orders like they did at Benetton/Renault and at Ferrari?
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Prost could have easily won 8 championships. The 4 he already won, 1983 - he should have, he would have won in 1988 if it wasn't for that ridiculous scoring system, 1990 he could have won also, and 1984, when he lost by half-a-point. Oh, and 51 victories. He is Mr. Consistent. He was in a title fight for 8/11 years. He is up there with Moss and Fangio, and better than Senna and Schumacher.
I'm trying to stay out of this thread, but you could easily throw 1982 in there as well, he had the speed to dominate but Renault lacked - badly lacked - the reliability.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
PRost 1982 if I remember rightly Rosberg won with 44pts and PRost was 4th with 34pts in the next best car to the Ferrari's

He lost the French GP because Arnoux did not move over costing him 3pts and then in Monaco he was leading with 6 laps to go when drops of rain caused him to spin and hit the barrier which created a madness of 5 leaders in the last 6 laps !

1983 he lost because Renault got too complacent despite Prost leading about Brabham with the almight powerful BMW turbo making a late surge, There was big expectations at the last race with all the bigwigs from Renault and when Prost went it was like they had been given a rude awakening

1984 he lost by 0.5pts which some say it was down to the stopped race at Monaco but he was actually struggling at the time being caught by Senna and Bellof

1988 because of the dropped scores system it meant he finished 2nd

I think there is something that everyone has overlooked about Prost...how many great drivers have been fired not from one but two teams in F1

Renault blamed him for not winning in 1983 and fired him despite his warnings...in a cruel twist of fate the team never won another race again as the Renault time until Alonso in 2003.

ROn Dennis the opportunist wasted no time in signing Prost and "sacked" John Watson despite finishin 2nd in 1982 and beating Lauda iin 1983.

One could say its a bit of luck that the sacking was a blessing in disguise and allowed to land a seat with the best prepared car as it were for 1984

Also Prost getting sacked from Ferrari is a lesson that Alonso that could learn for speaking out about the politics
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
The Renault sacking was more down to personal issues unrelated to the performance of the team or the driver.

The Ferrari comment was unwise, but in hindsight it was undoubtedly true, and he saved himself from the dreadful F92A. A bit of public criticism could galvanise the team to do better, or could turn them against you. Mansell did it too, but he was a more popular figure at Maranello I suppose.
 

RasputinLives

Doesn't look a bit like Jesus
Contributor
Also Prost getting sacked from Ferrari is a lesson that Alonso that could learn for speaking out about the politics
To Be honest with you I think alonso has taught himself that lesson. His attitude has been spot on this season.

As for Prost he learnt bugger all from it. He went off to sulk for a year and agreed to come back into F1 as long as he didn't have a competitve team-mate and the one he did had was ordered to sit on his bumper for the year.

Prost was a great driver but for me I chose to see his career ending in 1990
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
1984 he lost by 0.5pts which some say it was down to the stopped race at Monaco but he was actually struggling at the time being caught by Senna and Bellof
Yes, but lets assume that the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix finished after ¾ distance and there were full points. Lets also assume that both Senna and Bellof had passed Prost (and this is Monaco, so its not a natural assumption).

But Bellof was disqualified later in the season for Tyrell's tricks with the fuel, so that puts Prost back up to second.

Now there are full points - 6 for second. Hence Prost has gained 1.5 points, and with Niki in the wall, he hence takes the title by a point.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I recall that Prost had almost twice as many fastest race laps as Senna. This could be used to justify the view that Prost was faster when it mattered most--in the race, while Senna was a bit like Trulli--faster in qualifying.

Also, it has to be noted that "fearless" Senna vetoed Lotus hiring Warwick, and insisted on Dumphries instead!
 

VanChallis

Points Scorer
Firstly he wouldn't. Scheckter scored more points overall.

No, Senna was not as consistent. By 1993 he was hardly a pin-up boy for consistency, and don't forget he failed due to driver error in the first two races of 1994.

I only care about points. He finished second in every race that Senna won in 1988. He didn't retire through driver error at any point all season. He didn't bin it when 40 seconds clear of the field at Monaco, for example.
The second race of 1994 Senna went out, but if I remember correctly it wasn't his fault, he was punted from behind by someone. (I think it was a McLaren) And let's not forget, he was trying to drive around the horrible inadequacies of the Williams that had all of it's electronic driver aids removed, despite the fact the car had been totally designed around it.

You say that you just care about points. That's totally fine and understandable, but it's never been the most important factor to me. Prost was a fantastic driver, one of the greatest ever, but to me, in terms of driving skill and making a car go as fast as possible, Senna well and truly had him beaten, and Prost has admitted this on a few occasions.

One question. Could Prost have done what Senna did at Donnington 93? Could anyone else have?
 

VanChallis

Points Scorer
I recall that Prost had almost twice as many fastest race laps as Senna. This could be used to justify the view that Prost was faster when it mattered most--in the race, while Senna was a bit like Trulli--faster in qualifying.

Also, it has to be noted that "fearless" Senna vetoed Lotus hiring Warwick, and insisted on Dumphries instead!
The given reason for this was that Lotus didn't have the money to have two title running contenders in the pack, and wanted the main emphasis of the team to be on him. Not sure how true this is :thinking:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
One question. Could Prost have done what Senna did at Donnington 93? Could anyone else have?
No. It is very clear he couldn't. But points and championships are in general (2008 being a noble exception) decided by who wins the dry races. Prost won 48 of them.

The second race of 1994 Senna went out, but if I remember correctly it wasn't his fault, he was punted from behind by someone. (I think it was a McLaren) And let's not forget, he was trying to drive around the horrible inadequacies of the Williams that had all of it's electronic driver aids removed, despite the fact the car had been totally designed around it.
... which finished one point behind in the Championship in the hands of Damon Hill, and won the WCC without its #1 driver.
 
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