A Deserved Champion?

[gdeacon7]

We may just be having an etymological disagreement. Vettel drove better to win in 2011 than 2010, but I'm uncomfortable with labelling some titles as "more deserved" or "less deserved" (even "undeserved") compared to others.

I think you've hit it, Galahad. In my opinion 'deserving' is about who has driven better over the course of the season but I can see why people are uneasy about using that term. Everyone who wins the WDC deserves their title and we can respect that without oversimplifying all the factors that contributed to their beating the 23 other guys on the grid.

 

[gethinceri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

My gander was raised

Are you a farmer?

 

[FB]

Are you a farmer?

Arseholes - Dander

 

[Kewee]

Galahad...... 1:The time I quoted was an honest mistake. 2: I have always included Vettel in that elite group of drivers at the very front of the grid, I thought I'd been abundantly clear on that. I don't need convincing.

FB....... When I said this years winner would be deserving I meant this years driver would be deserving, NOT that last years driver was undeserving as you interpreted it. I value your contributions FB and respect your opinions but if you had not injected meaning into my posting that was never there in the first place none of this aggravation would have occurred.

Once again and I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, I think Vettel is one of the best on the grid, along with Alonso, Hamilton, Button and several others that could very well be in the running of "deserving" champions. Once again I use deserving in the context that this years champion will have to fight what is likely to be one of the closest fought championships for years with no team having any significant advantage, and please don't misinterpret that last statement. That was based on Adrian Newey's comment that it has become very difficult to come up with anything innovative due to the tightness of the current regulations.

One last comment. If I had thought Vettel was undeserving I would have said so, I DIDN"T.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

imho...the only challenge that is legitimate to the degrees of deserving would be if the team contrived several results (not one or two...but several) that edged out another driver for the title... if you could simply do the math and see that, for example, the 8 point margin that handed Driver A the title would have been -41 pts but for being waved through at the end of races...too much goes into the a race weekend before we get our 90mins of roger melly each second sunday on average March through November for a driver to be judged on their title...

 

[sportsman]

Don't forget Nigel Mansell in 1992 in the WilliamsFW14b.That was the dominant car that season so does that mean Mansells WDC was undeserved.

 

[MCLS]

Just because you have the quickest/one of the quickest car on the field doesn't mean you're 99.9% of the way to a World Championship, Kovalainen at Mclaren, Fisichella at Renault are two examples of that, good drivers in their own right, but lacking that killer edge to battle for a championship even in one of the better cars, okay the counter argument is their team mates in Hamilton and Alonso got the majority of the teams attentions, although if they were closer to them perhaps it would be more even, as Button is currently proving at Mclaren at the moment, a driver who capitilised on a quick car in 2009 to take the Championship and then proved it wasn't a fluke in the 2 and a bit years he's been at Mclaren.

 

[Kewee]

sportsman........Hi sportsman. You probably realize mine was the original posting that started this thread. If you go back to page one and read my original posting I'm sure you'll see nothing I said was remotely related to undervaluing any drivers Championship. It was a very short simple statement that included my reason for stating why I felt this years champion would be deserving. How this became so misconstrued is beyond me. There have been occasions, quite rare, when the playing field has been leveled out somewhat. Sir Jackie's time at the top was one such occasion for reasons I've already stated. My comments have been related to the current year which is likely to be another such year, based on Adrian Newey's comment that it has become very difficult to come up with anything significantly innovative. Drivers titles at times such as this, when the playing field is leveled out, in my view take on added meaning. That in no way makes other drivers who have reached the top any less deserving.

 

[FB]

I'm not meaning to demean Vettel in saying this but last year I felt for the first time in a long time the drivers championship was won by a car rather than the driver.

Kewee - doubtless you will poin tout that I have selectively quoted you but please explain what other interpretation I could put on this part of one of your posts other than you feel Vettel's Championship was down to the car rather than the driver?

 

[MCLS]

Personally if anything in terms of pure pace the 2010 car was faster than last years car, however a combination of poor mistakes and reliability almost cost him the 2010 title, it's easy to put Vettel's 2011 title down to the car, but apart from Germany, he had a faultless season in both qualifying and the races. No point having the best car if you make mistakes all the time.

 

[Kewee]

KB......I accept what your saying 100%. As your aware these comments develop as the discussions continue. My response you've quoted was exactly that. Galahad questioned my use of the word deserving and I elaborated. My choice of words was unwise and I've already acknowledged that, but that didn't alter my view that Red Bull, due to the technology employed was the dominant car and had a significant advantage but that does not demean Vettels achievement and that was never my intention. As I said, my turn of phrase was unwise. My comment to sportsman above probably best explains my views. Please read it. I'm not quite sure what your asking for. I've acknowledged that much of what has been discussed is due to my contributions being a little harsh and easily misconstrued but I'm not about to slash my wrists and bleed all over my laptop. You seem hellbent on totally destroying everything I say. Is my explanation and apology not enough?

 

[FB]

I wasn't asking for an apology, and if I have come across as heavy handed for that I apologise. As I pointed out in an earlier post it is all too easy to dismiss the input of the driver and that is the only point I was trying to make.

 

[Kewee]

FB.......Apology accepted as always. I really don't want to be confrontational and believe me it has never been my intention to dismiss the input of the driver. I said on one of my previous postings I respect and admire every single driver on the grid. They all hold super licence's and deserve our admiration, including the driver who qualifies 24th. Those that trail the field need time to adapt to racing at the pinnacle of the sport and deserve to be given their chance. As I've said there is a select few at the very top of their game who deserve everything they achieve and Vettel is one of them.