2021 Silly Season

[cider_and_toast]

Like a number of teams in years gone by (Lotus were probably the number one for this), Red Bull can't run two cars with equal status. It's nothing to be ashamed of but what is a fact is that they won't admit it.

As a result, unfair expectations are always placed on the second driver which adds even more pressure on their shoulders.

Is Max a faster driver than Alex? Absolutely he is, no question, but because all of the effort at RBR goes into Max's car it makes the performance gap look far wider.

As I said in the Vettel dropped thread, Albon has been on the receiving end of more criticism than any driver on the grid this season and the fact that he has managed to keep his head down and crack on speaks volumes.

Interestingly, Albon has now completed 14 races for RBR and finished in the top 6 on 11 occasions.

More interestingly, if you look at his initial record against Verstappen in 2019, from Albon's debut in Spa to the Mexican GP he outscored Max 58 points to 40. In the remaining 3 races of the season Max finished with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd while Alex could only manage a 6th and a 5th. That has carried through into this season with Alex consistently finishing around the top six and Max challenging for podiums and wins.

It's not hard to spot then the moment that the Verstappens had a quiet word in Horner's ear that maybe Max wasn't quite getting as much support as he may have wanted.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives I think Hulkenberg must be considered as a possibility given what he did last week

I know he got sacked by Red Bull a while back but would Felix Da Costa consider the chance if given now he is F E champ

 

[RasputinLives]

Does this forum have a template post that reads "I think *insert team here* will be considering Hulkenberg after that performance"? Seems to be come up at least once a season.

I can't see the Verstappens letting that happen or Red Bull wanting to rock the boat like that.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives Verstappen was the one saying he deserves his place on the grid over some last week. I am sure Hulkenberg isn't going to start upsetting Verstappen.

The "Get Hulkenberg back in F1 "pr machine has started from last week

 

[RasputinLives]

Great. Put him in the Red Bull second seat and let's see how quickly the 'Hulkenberg isn't as good as he is made out to be and needs dropping' PR machine starts up.

 

[Il_leone]

I very much doubt the drop Hulkenberg machine would start because everyone wants him to get a podium. Otherwise promote Gasly or Kyvat if they/Helmut dare to roll the dice. They ain't going to promote a rookie

 

[RasputinLives]

I'd give it 3 races of being half a second a lap behind Max before the media (and you) turned on him.

 

[cider_and_toast]

A number 2 at RBR with Max Verstappen in the race seat has no chance.

I looked something else up this afternoon:

After the Hungarian GP on the 29th July 2018 Danny Ric was 5th in the Championship on 118 points having won 2 races to Max's 1. When both cars finished Danny lead Max home 5 to 2. Max had scored 105 points.

On the 3rd of August Renault announced that Danny was joining their team for 2019.

There after, Danny never finished higher than 4th while Max took another win, 3 seconds and 3 3rds.

Danny never lead Max home again and rhe season ended with Max on 249 points to Danny's 170.

Coincidence??

It's clear that Red Bull Racing is "Verstappen Racing" which isn't a problem as long as they are honest with their drivers and everyone else. Maximising your resources by throwing everything behind one car has been the rule of thumb for a number of non works teams in F1 history.

 

[RasputinLives]

To be honest Ferrari have been running the same strategy for decades as well. Mansell, Irvine, Barrichello, Massa, Kimi.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Yeah, this is true.

I think the biggest problem in this respect is that teams stopped being honest with themselves about 20 years ago.

There was once no shame in having a number 1 and number 2 driver.

 

[Il_leone]

I'd give it 3 races of being half a second a lap behind Max before the media (and you) turned on him.

I will say Red Bull No 2 is a poison chalice because the team will do anything to massage Verstappen's ego

I am not going to turn on Hulkenberg because I've said it before he is more capable driver than those who come with plenty of money many times.

As for Gasly I think everyone can see he was the worst choice they had to pick from. Even he knew before the season started As for Albon I have been hoping he gets his shot since F2 when.everyone talking about Norris and Russell. It seems like whoever's has been no2 at Red Bull#### is being picked on by the press or media or Channel 4 since Danny Ric left

I have little sympathy for the dark lord Helmut Marko and two face Christian Horner saying they are a team of equal opportunities. That is utter bs especially now they wont admit they've burned a lot of good driver careers like JEV who are lost to F1

 

[Il_leone]

Ferrari under Jean Todt made it clear who was No 1 and No 2 as stated in the contract..everyone knew accept a deluded Barrichello

Mansell got fooled into thinking being Prost 's teammate was going to help him be a better to the point of secretly swapping cars without his knowledge but then Berger got the same treatment the year before he should have seen it coming

 

[RasputinLives]

I think the biggest problem in this respect is that teams stopped being honest with themselves about 20 years ago.

This comes from two things. Firstly more media interest with the emphasis on the drivers championship. Secondly the dominance of teams leading to less competitive races. The teams feel like they have to delude the general public into thinking that every race is going to be the best race ever for the good of 'the show'. It's the same reason Toto Wolff and Lewis try and convince us that Merc are not a country mile in front of the rest every year after testing.

To be fair they are driven to it by the fans which includes us on forums like this. "Bottas/Kimi/Albon need to be replaced by someone quicker and then we'd get a real championship" - we're all guilty of it. We're all remembering something that has never really existed. I'm sure people will quote me some sparse examples of when team mates have competed for the title (and I'll quote you back how it's ended in disaster), but, at the end of the day, F1 has always been about number 1 and 2 driver even if we don't want to admitt it.

 

[cider_and_toast]

The teams feel like they have to delude the general public into thinking that every race is going to be the best race ever for the good of 'the show'.

I agree to an extent but a far bigger influence has been the media. Especially now that we've entered the world of PPV. If there is no sellable product to the masses there is no profit.

As for remember teams that have had a more or less equal line up, they were few and far between as you say Ras but they have cast a big shadow over the sport.

 

[RasputinLives]

Did Prost/Laura ever come to blows? All others past that I can say they did but I'm a bit too young to remember the two years they went at it

 

[cider_and_toast]

Not sure about Prost and Laura?

I'm reasonably sure that Prost and Lauda got on without too many problems. I've never read anything to say otherwise.

I'd imagine Prost and Lauda were similar personalities with the win the race at the slowest speed possible attitude.

 

[RasputinLives]

So we have to go back 35 years odd to find team mates who competed for a championship without crashing into each other, internally destroying a team, trying to get the other one booted out or just plain old hating each other.

Kind of underlines the point.

 

[F1Brits_90]

yeah, i guess that is the 1st rule of motorsport. that if you have teammates that get on its because is alot better than the other or they arent fighting for the title

 

[FB]

What about Jenson and Rubens? Never saw much in the way of aggro between them.

 

[RasputinLives]

There was a bit but to be honest I wouldn't consider Rubens a challenger to Jenson that year. Not a real one. He was a challenger in the same way Bottas was.