Grand Prix 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Back in 1991 Nigel Mansell had been persuaded not retire after his time at Ferrari and re-joined Williams. What took him back to Williams was the first Adrian Newey design Williams F1 car, the FW14. The 1991 car did not have the infamous active suspension of the FW14B but it was still a very advanced racing car.

The car proved fast but unreliable in the early races. Patrese took a second place in Brazil and Mansell the same in Monaco, in the other races the Williams failed to finish.

Then came Canada.

Patrese put his car on Pole, 0.4 seconds quicker than Mansell. At the start of the race Mansell took the lead and there he stayed for 68 laps. Meanwhile Patrese was having trouble with his gearbox and was passed by Nelson Piquet in the Benetton and Stefano Modeno in the Tyrrell.

Mansell was cruising at the front. On lap 65 he set the fastest lap and was stroking the car home. On the final lap he was over a minute ahead of Piquet and looked set to take his first victory on his return to Williams. As he approached the hairpin for the final time the car slowed, it rounded the hairpin and as Nigel attempted to accelerate down the straight towards the chicane the car simply wouldn't go. The Englishman vented his frustration and beat the steering wheel as the machine dribbled to a halt in front of one of the main grandstands. He got out and left the car where it was.

How could Mansell lose the race so close to the finish? When the car got back to the pits the engine started, the gearbox worked fine and it probably could have done another race. Unfortunately Nigel had let the revs drop too low as he approached the hairpin which lost electrical and hydraulic power causing the gearbox barrel to get stuck.

Meanwhile his nemesis, Nelson Piquet, over half a lap behind, kept it all together and cruised past to take what would be his last victory in F1 in his last season in the sport.

What of 2019? Expect a Mercedes front row with Hamilton on pole. Lewis will take a lights to flag victory and, I suspect, a Grand Chelem. Enjoy.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

This is not going to be easy case, but I think teams have to stand up and be counted against FiA's abuses of authority.

it won't happen, nowadays big teams have almost total control of smaller teams: Mercedes has a significant power over Force India (sorry I forgot their new name...) and Williams, Red Bull has total control over STR, Ferrari has total control over Sauber and a very strong say in what Haas does, in the past in theory some sort of upheaval was possible (please note that I wrote "in theory"), nowadays IMHO it is impossible for the very nature of modern F1 which is a sport divided among 3 or 4 big players.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Why did Hamilton try to go past Vettel on the right hand side? It was perfectly clear the Vettel would be going to the right and that if Hamilton tried to get past there would be a safety car whilst the two cars were being moved away.

There was a gaping gap on the left hand side; Hamilton could have gone straight past, game over.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Why did Hamilton try to go past Vettel on the right hand side? It was perfectly clear the Vettel would be going to the right and that if Hamilton tried to get past there would be a safety car whilst the two cars were being moved away.

There was a gaping gap on the left hand side; Hamilton could have gone straight past, game over.

what you say is right but these are human beings, no one is perfect, Hamilton saw a gap on the right and tried to squeeze past Vettel on the right hand side. Also that track is very narrow, I drove around it in 2005 on an SUV during my honeymoon and it was really really tight (and quite dark in places). What I'm trying to say is that from the outside it's quite easy, when you're in the heat of the moment it's not always so easy to make the right choice. Personally I don't blame Hamilton for trying on the outside even though I agree with you that he could have passed Vettel quite easily on the inside, but I am talking with hindsight and with a much clearer picture of what was going on than a driver sitting low inside the cockpit of his car

 

[gethinceri]

The stewards' decision should be upheld (not because it is right but because it is the stewards').
Vettel should be penalised for not parking his car correctly, for rearranging the parking boards and for incorrect behaviour on the podium.
It's time for him to retire.

 

[Bill Boddy]

But surely Publius Cornelius Scipio Hamilton would expect Vettel to close the door as he would do himself with someone trying to overtake but not quite far enough forward. Or is that no longer allowed as well?

 

[Mezzer]

FIA: We have reviewed the images and car telemetry and have decided to cancel the previous penalty. Due to parking the car in the wrong location and failing to do the initial post-race interview a 10 second penalty has been implemented. Welcome to third place...

 

[RasputinLives]

You joke Mezzer but the FIA have been known to chuck out additional penalties if they don't like a team appealing. Ask BAR and Eddie Irvine.

By the way did Hamilton get a fine or penalty when he kicked over his pit board in Monaco that year? I can't remember.

 

[Ruslan]

BTW does anyone know if Vettel will be punished for not parking his car in the right spot and for moving the #2 board in front of Hamilton's car? I assume that he will

I hope not.

I thought moving the #1 and #2 boards was good television.

 

[Ruslan]

I don't think that he could have controlled the re-entry as if he wasn't on the throttle he would have spun his car (and probably hit the wall, taking Hamilton with him). IMHO Mansell made the right point (given that he's a WDC there's little surprise in this): when you're on the grass you're a passenger, all you can do is damage limitation, and that's what Vettel did, he kept on the throttle and gave full opposite lock, IMHO he could have done nothing more

Well, whether he could have controlled the car on the re-entry...or could have delayed his re-entry....is kind of the issue. They do have telemetry, so maybe we will know more during the appeal.

1. If he could not control re-entry, then the penalty was not justified.
2. If he could have controlled re-entry, then the penalty is very much in accordance with the rule book.
3. I gather many people's position is that regardless of point 2, he should not have been penalized (because it was late in the race and they were fighting for position).

 

[Ruslan]

Anyway, finally something interesting to keep us all busy chatting

Formula One is particularly good about that.

 

[Brogan]

From an Autosport article, apparently.

The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car - and felt the evidence showed that he could have made different choices that would have been within the rules.

The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

 

[Ruslan]

From an Autosport article, apparently.

The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car - and felt the evidence showed that he could have made different choices that would have been within the rules.

The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

This is kind of what I am seeing, but I am not a driver. They did take 10 minutes to make a decision, so I assume that they concluded that he could have kept the car off the racing line. If that conclusion is correct (which I strongly suspect it is), then the stewards' decision is entirely understandable.

 

[Izumi]

Ricciardo: Hamilton blocked me like Vettel blocked him

Well, that's FiA for you. Hard racing...? Depends who is in the front.

 

[F1Brits_90]

personally I wouldn't have attended the podium ceremony, he would have been given a fine but with all the money that he makes it would have been an insignificant amount of money. Sometimes when you believe that you are in the right you have to accept the consequences of your actions

i believe he had no intentions of the podium yesterday. but someone had to persuade him to go. for some reason

 

[Angel]

Max from p9 to p5
Gasly from p5 to p8.....?????

I bet on Gasly, enough said

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

But surely Publius Cornelius Scipio Hamilton would expect Vettel to close the door as he would do himself with someone trying to overtake but not quite far enough forward. Or is that no longer allowed as well?

sure but Vettel had very limited chance of changing direction as his tyres were now dirty and covering his inside was probably very very difficult. Since it was so marginal I think that no penalty should have been handed out. I also believe that F1 has to find a way to show consistency in their decisions because if what Vettel did yesterday was wrong then it was also wrong what Hamilton did at Monaco in 2016, and vice versa, F1 is a professional sport and they need consistency in the interpretation of the rules.

BTW I have seen an article (pity it's in Italian) where Hamilton says that he would have behaved as Vettel did Hamilton: 'Avrei fatto la stessa cosa di Vettel, ma non cambio opinione'

To me what is significant in all this mess is that the drivers have shown mutual respect, one of my worse fears is that F1 turns into something like football (I have to be honest and clarify that I don't like football and never watch it, not even the world championship, sorry to all football fans)

Finally it looks as if most drivers agree that the penalty was unnecessary https://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/formula1/i-piloti-stanno-dalla-parte-di-vettel-penalita-ridicola-cosi-si-rovina-la-f1-_1279950-201902a.shtml I can't quite understand why the impressions of this Marco Bonanomi guy and of Casey Stoner are relevant for the journalist but there you go. The only one that I've seen saying that Vettel deserved to be punished was Nico Rosberg

Re Vettel's punishment for missing parc ferme I have a few doubts that he will be able to get away with it

 

[Ruslan]

Ricciardo: Hamilton blocked me like Vettel blocked him

Well, that's FiA for you. Hard racing...? Depends who is in the front.

Speaking of 2016...there is also this incident:

 

[Izumi]

Speaking of 2016...there is also this incident:

Is it the one race in which Stewards let Verstappen really scre* Vettel's race first, and than later on when it really didn't matter - after race - for good measure they "punished" RBR driver? That was one of the most disgusting race stewardship EVER!

 

[Izumi]

yeah as always with Ferrari & Mercedes. works teams 1st customer teams race afte

Engines are definitely the same at revision level. Who gets upgrades and when is however a matter of private agreement between a customer and a supplier. I don't think general public has any reliable information about it, at least not enough to responsibly discuss it. Sometimes even teammates might not have all on their cars at the same engineering level (as temp. condition). So much is, I thought, common knowledge. It's nice to have always a new engine, but someone has to pay for scrapping the old unit (or take the old one without complains).

 

[Jimbob]

BTW does anyone know if Vettel will be punished for not parking his car in the right spot and for moving the #2 board in front of Hamilton's car? I assume that he will

Vettel's behaviour afterwards was genuinely hilarious and he knew exactly what he was doing and how far he could push it. I don't know if he and/or the team will face additional penalties for that. The controversy about the initial penalty may be sufficient to avoid more.