Grand Prix 2019 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Back in 1991 Nigel Mansell had been persuaded not retire after his time at Ferrari and re-joined Williams. What took him back to Williams was the first Adrian Newey design Williams F1 car, the FW14. The 1991 car did not have the infamous active suspension of the FW14B but it was still a very advanced racing car.

The car proved fast but unreliable in the early races. Patrese took a second place in Brazil and Mansell the same in Monaco, in the other races the Williams failed to finish.

Then came Canada.

Patrese put his car on Pole, 0.4 seconds quicker than Mansell. At the start of the race Mansell took the lead and there he stayed for 68 laps. Meanwhile Patrese was having trouble with his gearbox and was passed by Nelson Piquet in the Benetton and Stefano Modeno in the Tyrrell.

Mansell was cruising at the front. On lap 65 he set the fastest lap and was stroking the car home. On the final lap he was over a minute ahead of Piquet and looked set to take his first victory on his return to Williams. As he approached the hairpin for the final time the car slowed, it rounded the hairpin and as Nigel attempted to accelerate down the straight towards the chicane the car simply wouldn't go. The Englishman vented his frustration and beat the steering wheel as the machine dribbled to a halt in front of one of the main grandstands. He got out and left the car where it was.

How could Mansell lose the race so close to the finish? When the car got back to the pits the engine started, the gearbox worked fine and it probably could have done another race. Unfortunately Nigel had let the revs drop too low as he approached the hairpin which lost electrical and hydraulic power causing the gearbox barrel to get stuck.

Meanwhile his nemesis, Nelson Piquet, over half a lap behind, kept it all together and cruised past to take what would be his last victory in F1 in his last season in the sport.

What of 2019? Expect a Mercedes front row with Hamilton on pole. Lewis will take a lights to flag victory and, I suspect, a Grand Chelem. Enjoy.

 

[RasputinLives]

Greenlantern101 I think you're on flimsy ground with 'gaining and advantage'. He lost considerable time. As we've seen throughout the last 15 years drivers don't get penalised for that unless they gain a position.

Just a point I'm going to make here. Anyone who agrees that Vettel's penalty is fair will also agree that Hamilton's penalty in Belgium in 2008 is also correct right?

 

[Radical F1]

F1 has finally taken their Cyanide.
Death is imminent - Goodbye F1 !
And that's all I'm gonna say.

 

[Dartman]

Schumacher's actions looked entirely intentional, Vettel was just a passenger..

I would suggest he was just a passenger because he kept his foot down when regaining the track,, I would also suggest it was 50/50 that he didn't hit the wall, once Hamilton braked he could then lift and regain control as Hamilton braking lost more momentum, I consider it was deliberate as to be overtaken in making an unforced error under pressure would not have helped his future

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Greenlantern101 I think you're on flimsy ground with 'gaining and advantage'. He lost considerable time. As we've seen throughout the last 15 years drivers don't get penalised for that unless they gain a position.

Just a point I'm going to make here. Anyone who agrees that Vettel's penalty is fair will also agree that Hamilton's penalty in Belgium in 2008 is also correct right?

good point

BTW I think that Hamilton's move at La Source was amazing

 

[Izumi]

BTW does anyone know if Vettel will be punished for not parking his car in the right spot and for moving the #2 board in front of Hamilton's car? I assume that he will

...FiA may also take dim view for him to stand briefly (with Hamilton) on P1 spot on the podium.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

I would suggest he was just a passenger because he kept his foot down when regaining the track

his car was oversteering when he rejoined the track, had he lifted he would have spun (and Hamilton would have hit him)

Anyway, finally something interesting to keep us all busy chatting

 

[Izumi]

Will Ferrari go through with their intent to protest?

 

[Greenlantern101]

Max from p9 to p5
Gasly from p5 to p8.....?????

 

[Izumi]

F1 has finally taken their Cyanide.
Death is imminent - Goodbye F1 !
And that's all I'm gonna say.

It is painful to watch for past number of years how Vettel is treated by race authorities compared to other drivers.

 

[Izumi]

Will Ferrari go through with their intent to protest?

Ferrari confirm decision to appeal steward's decision

Not sure that will help, and as in the past, protest might be withdrawn at later date.

 

[Izumi]

Marko has lost his temper with the tyre situation in Formula 1

“Mercedes was the only team to benefit from this stupid tyre change,” Marko is also quoted by La Gazzetta dello Sport. “Nine teams have problems, one does not. Whose idea was it to change them? Mercedes! Because they were constantly blistering.”

OK Helmut, and what are you going to do about it? Another season is lost already. Even Vettel is now "disgruntled employee".

 

[Greenlantern101]

Does anyone know how long the appeal takes? You Bet results delayed because of this.
2 weeks until next race though.

 

[Angel]

That penalty was soooooo wrong in my opinion. Sure it was an error that Seb shouldn't have made and yes Hamilton had to take a bit of evasive action, but handing down that penalty made no sense at all to me. It ruined the race as far as I was concerned and the crowd in Montreal agreed by the way they booed Hamilton on the podium Seb was a gentleman saying the crowd was wrong to boo Hamilton and I did like that he swapped the numbers the way he did, that at least made me smile.

I understand why they put penalties in place but for me that was a really bad decision. Seb had nowhere else to go and nothing else he could do that wouldn't have made matters worse. From what I have seen on social media a lot of former F1 drivers agree, they have been there and done that so their opinion matters more than just us mere armchair viewers to some degree. If people like that are disgusted by such penalties then something needs to be done. That for me was just a racing incident and not a penalty at all. I hope the Ferrari appeal works out for them, I can see why they and Seb feel cheated by that result, as an F1 fan I do too. But then you could say I'm biased being a Seb fan and maybe to some degree I am.

 

[olegg]

The correct penalty for a dangerous return to the track.
The minimum from possible, which allowed Vettel to win the race.
But it was not the first time he had succumbed to emotions
and could well be left without a second place.
It is unfortunate that Leclerс not punish his teammate for such behavior.
It would be very interesting to see if Vettel would understand
who is to blame for his result?

 

[F1Brits_90]

If he had backed off the throttle, could he have controlled the re-entry? Did he back off the throttle? Was it safe to back off the throttle?

im not sure he was on the throttle dont forget he probally just momentum with entry speeds of 105 - 110 mph. karun chandhok had a great bit on sky pad which I nearly switched over because I thought they were analysing to death. but shows that vettel coming off the grass had to put opposite lock as back stepped out again. so Im with vettel at that time every other situation I can think of includes Leclerc maiden victory

ps: I disagreed with that decision in 2007/8 as well

 

[Izumi]

The correct penalty for a dangerous return to the track.
The minimum from possible, which allowed Vettel to win the race.
But it was not the first time he had succumbed to emotions
and could well be left without a second place.
It is unfortunate that Leclerс not punish his teammate for such behavior.
It would be very interesting to see if Vettel would understand
who is to blame for his result?

I think he uderstood what happened. I do however doubt - repectfully - that you do.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Does anyone know how long the appeal takes? You Bet results delayed because of this.
2 weeks until next race though.

in that case I think stewards were far too lenient, should've been a drive through penalty or disqualification. me changing my opinion has nothing to with the 105 brogans including stake that I stand to win if lewis is confirmed as winner ​

 

[Angel]

The correct penalty for a dangerous return to the track.
The minimum from possible, which allowed Vettel to win the race.
But it was not the first time he had succumbed to emotions
and could well be left without a second place.
It is unfortunate that Leclerс not punish his teammate for such behavior.
It would be very interesting to see if Vettel would understand
who is to blame for his result?

Please tell me what else Vettel could have done in that situation which wouldn't have ended up with him potentially taking both Hamilton as well as himself out of the race causing a lot of damage and potential injury to either/both of them. I would seriously be interested to know. Given the space and the speed they were going I can't see how any other action would have ended better for either of them. It could have been substantially worse, but not better.

I am sure they will bring it in at some point but to the best of my knowledge you can't make one of those cars evaporate yet. That is about the only other thing Seb could do that would have been better for Hamilton from what I can tell.

As for Leclerc, I am assuming the team made sure he didn't add insult to injury in this situation and rightly so.

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

It seems that Ferrari is preparing all the documents to notify their appeal, I wish that they have looked at this with the necessary care because they risk an even tougher penalty.

Also while I don't think that Vettel broke any rule when he re-entered the track I am 100% sure that he broke several rules when he refused to put his car into parc ferme and when he swapped the #1 board with the #2 in front of Hamilton's car. Just to clarify my thoughts on this: I think that he was totally right in making his point, personally I wouldn't have attended the podium ceremony, he would have been given a fine but with all the money that he makes it would have been an insignificant amount of money. Sometimes when you believe that you are in the right you have to accept the consequences of your actions.

This looks like the kind of situation where, just to make a point, the judiciary will go to any lenght to reaffirm their power

On top of that I have no trust whatsoever in the FIA's judiciary

 

[Izumi]

This is not going to be easy case, but I think teams have to stand up and be counted against FiA's abuses of authority.