Grand Prix 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix (990th GP) Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Izumi

Banned
I am not sure how did you arrived to your conclusion that it is over for Leclerc this season, however looking over the shoulder, Vettel had undeniably more than just one race messed up by unhelpful strategy over the years. I would add to it his timed lap in Q3 for this race. I am not sure who is making calls on the wall, but his racing engineer needs to open eyes when needed (as opposed to when convenient).
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
I think Leclerc destroyed his own race in Q2.
In many respects it was the time of day. Leclerc starting 8th on mediums is usually not overwhelmingly disadvantaged. On most tracks, running mediums first and softs in the second stint is faster (better) than softs first and mediums second. In this case, it was not, for as the track cooled the softs did not work. So they delayed Leclerc's pit stop for a very long time, and then when he showed up on new soft tries, after a couple of laps he started falling back from the cars on old mediums. That tells you a lot. It was an odd race.
 

vintly

Mostly bacon
Premium Contributor
Sure let’s see Mercedes try and lock out the fourth row and start on mediums next time it’s an early race start!
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Ferrari could do with Ross Brawn sorting them out on the pitwall

James Allison must be loving it and rubbing it into Ferrari's noses a bit seeing he left Ferrari under a cloud and is with Mercedes so guess who is reaping the benefits

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It seems Ferrari's don;t work on soft tyres well but at Barcelona I think they were the fastest on the softs if I remember and Mercedes all winter were playing the long game and understanding the race pace potential on medium tyres like last year when they thrashed everyone
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Le Clerc's race was ruined when Ferrari sent him out on medium tyres in Q2 rather than softs but even so today was bizarre given both Mercs were past him and the team differed for 3 laps which cost him another 8 seconds further behind :facepalm:What does the guy have to do to deserve a break
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Keep an eye out later in the week for the UK overnight viewing figures. This will be the first race of the season without Sky's generous 'free' simulcast on Sky One.

The combined Sky Sports F1 and C4 highlights figures will reveal a picture of the current UK viewer levels. I expect it to be grim reading.
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
Le Clerc's race was ruined when Ferrari sent him out on medium tyres in Q2 rather than softs but even so today was bizarre given both Mercs were past him and the team differed for 3 laps which cost him another 8 seconds further behind :facepalm:What does the guy have to do to deserve a break
Well, I think Ferrari was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. It was clear after the first couple of laps that Leclerc's laps times on the soft tires were slower than Vettel's on the medium tires. If they brought him in earlier, it probably would not have been better.

I to originally thought Ferrari was screwing up or screwing with him.....but once we saw him driving on soft, it was clear that they didn't really have a good option. I haven't checked his lap times towards the end of the race, but I do recall him slowly dropping back.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
great win from bottas, he is really in title contention but I still feel its too early to tell because in both years he's been decent 1st half & then post summer break. he falls apart. considering he was in last chance saloon this season he has grasps the opportunity with both hands. Hamilton got to be getting concerned & Ocon wondering if he will get back into F1

but I am confused at the Ferrari strategists, because I dont understand what the point was. seemingly sticking Leclerc into no mans land is all the rage at the moment because the last 2 races they finished 5th when the minimum should've been 4th it all started Q2 in qualifying but ill go into that later. it was obvious to everyone you pit on lap 31 as Bottas had got within DRS & was in the soft window but they wait until lap 35 when he's in 4th & so far back gasly overtook him . because Leclerc 1st stint is usually brilliant until the pit stop phase then ferrari have brain fade I will say this, this 4 races for me have shown the massive difference in 2017 & 2018 in between 2 evenly paced cars, the Mercedes strategist are fantastic, rarely put a foot wrong but Ferrari it is almost a weekly event if it was Italy tow to Kimi, japan going on the inters etc. Leclerc is no saint in this he locked up, but 1st why go on the mediums in dropping temperatures there was no need for a contra strategy, because they didnt need to get a "advantage" because he was comfortably the fastest all weekend. so on Saturday just match Mercedes even in 8th with softs > medium he wouldve been on the podium maybe pushed Mercedes for 2nd or the win when he see how he flying through the field

you have to feel for Riccardio he took a big risk & went to Renault but I wonder if he underestimate the jump or is regretting the move because this has been a bit of a disaster he was fighting for 13th & as crofty pointed out he hasn't finished a race in that new helmet. 2021 is huge risk right now because he will be nearly 32 by the start of 2021. whats to say that the top 3 wont still be the top 3
 

vintly

Mostly bacon
Premium Contributor
Ferrari are well aware that Mercedes sand-bag until qualifying, perhaps even late in qualifying, so 'fastest all weekend' means little. Q3 is when the gloves come off, not before. It's taken fans and the press a while to wake up to this, which proves how formidable a PR and propaganda machine the Mercedes outfit are, as well as top engineers, strategists and drivers.

Ricciardo made his own bed and should be happy enough not being beaten up by Verstappen.
 
In many respects it was the time of day. Leclerc starting 8th on mediums is usually not overwhelmingly disadvantaged. On most tracks, running mediums first and softs in the second stint is faster (better) than softs first and mediums second. In this case, it was not, for as the track cooled the softs did not work. So they delayed Leclerc's pit stop for a very long time, and then when he showed up on new soft tries, after a couple of laps he started falling back from the cars on old mediums. That tells you a lot. It was an odd race.
:cheer::cheer::cheer:

excellent post, yesterday I watched the race from London and had to endure Marc Webber's commentary who IMHO made some very silly remarks on this subject stating that Ferrari were stupid and that they ruined Leclerc's race.

I had a chat about this with a friend who had watched the race on C4 as well and repeated Webber's accusation, I asked him a very simple question and he couldn't answer. My question was: when was Ferrari supposed to stop Leclerc for his tyre change? It's a very straightforward question, I'm sure that our friends here who support the theory that Ferrari once again sabotaged Leclerc's race (I presume to help Vettel) will be willing to answer. And it would be great if anyone suggesting that Ferrari should have stopped Leclerc earlier should explain why Leclerc on brand new red tyres struggled to pass Gasly on worn out yellow tyres and after a few laps he had lost all the margin that he had built on Gasly. Had Gasly engine soldiered on he would have passed Leclerc despite having very old tyres on.

The thing looks very simple and straightforward to me: yesterday that Ferrari couldn't run on the red tyres, Vettel's pace was appaling after a few laps on his first stint, they knew and they tried to keep Leclerc out as long as possible. Had there been an SC we would be praising Leclerc's first win. Sadly it didn't work out.

the attitude suggesting that Ferrari is trying all they can to damage Leclerc to favour Vettel is starting to get on my nerves, sorry
 

Ruslan

Podium Finisher
the attitude suggesting that Ferrari is trying all they can to damage Leclerc to favour Vettel is starting to get on my nerves, sorry
Well, there is a tendency on these boards and among race fans to either love or hate Ferrari. Not a lot of people in the middle. This sort of flavors the discussions.
 

gethinceri

Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
I don't think they sabotaged his race, that would be an idiotic and assinine suggestion. What they did do was to make the wrong decision on timing. I beleive they should have brought him in when he could still rejoin in front of Verstappen, pitting him later would only work if the tyres switched on and gave him a 1.5 second per lap advantage.
 

Jimbob

Learner
(snip to) ...
the attitude suggesting that Ferrari is trying all they can to damage Leclerc to favour Vettel is starting to get on my nerves, sorry
I'm pretty neutral on Ferrari but absolutely agree with you. The idea that any team would set out to deliberately damage the chances of one of their drivers in order to favour the other is ridiculous, IMO. Now, in the heat of a race, it is easy to believe that occasionally it happens accidentally. Plus, nowadays especially, if they were doing this, word would leak out one way or the other.
 

220

Learner
you have to feel for Riccardio he took a big risk & went to Renault but I wonder if he underestimate the jump or is regretting the move because this has been a bit of a disaster he was fighting for 13th & as crofty pointed out he hasn't finished a race in that new helmet. 2021 is huge risk right now because he will be nearly 32 by the start of 2021. whats to say that the top 3 wont still be the top 3
I was looking forward to seeing his progress in the last phase of the race, he looked to have got the mediums working and had pace relative to those around him. I think the move he didnt pull off was for 10th and another few spots would have been possible.
While Renaults lack of pace was a bit of a shock the Hulk being so far behind Ricciardo was even more so.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
I don't think they sabotaged his race, that would be an idiotic and assinine suggestion. What they did do was to make the wrong decision on timing. I beleive they should have brought him in when he could still rejoin in front of Verstappen, pitting him later would only work if the tyres switched on and gave him a 1.5 second per lap advantage.
this wasnt sabotage like at times under Kimi. i think it was just incompetence. he shouldve been in lap 30 as we all know that with the lighter fuel load they wouldve last 20laps. but no they waited until top 4 basically overtook him & giving him no chance to make it back

as i said there was no need for a contra strategy, because they didnt need to get a "advantage" because he was comfortably the fastest all weekend. i know their is abit talking about sandbagging but come on it was 1.4secs. he had pole in the bag. but he cocked up albeit on the wrong tyres as vettel proved nearly binning it at T8/9
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Publius Cornelius Scipio We've seen how badly the no 2 drivers get treated at Ferrari over the years but so far Ferrar has managed to mess up each race for Le Clerc. The only one was Bahrain which they told Le Clerc to hold station but he refused and demonstrated what he can do

Le Clerc is no way a No 2 driver and Ferrari should realise they have one of the best young talents on the grid at the moment so trying to suppress him is counter productive and may destroy his career
 
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